These Books Made Me
These Books Made Me
Sweet Valley High: Double Love and Teacher Crush
Wow. Truly, we are so glad we took a detour to the affluent and completely bananas town of Sweet Valley, California to meet Jessica and Elizabeth Wakefield. These books have everything: an evil twin, a greaser who carjacks people and takes them to dive bars, an art teacher named Stuart who has no boundaries, and a lie detector test that measures your pulse with a thimble. In this episode we dive into books 1 and 57 of the enormous Sweet Valley High series, Double Love and Teacher Crush. Who knew books about high school sororities (?!?) and mandatory electives could be so compelling? In this episode of TBMM, we play the vintage SVH board game, learn about Hawa's twinness, hear about Hannah's faux twinness, and Hawa implies that Heather is 60. These books are really struggling to pass the Bechdel test, but we kind of love them. There are no deep themes, beautiful writing, or well developed characters here, folks, just teen soap opera nonsense that you can't put down.
These Books Made Me is a podcast about the literary heroines who shaped us and is a product of the Prince George's County Memorial Library System podcast network. Stay in touch with us via Twitter @PGCMLS with #TheseBooksMadeMe or by email at TheseBooksMadeMe@pgcmls.info. For recommended readalikes and deep dives into topics related to each episode, visit our blog at https://pgcmls.medium.com/.
Music during the author bio is Neon Waves by Starfall.
Hi, I'm Hawa. I'm Heather. I'm Hannah. And I'm Darlene. And this is our podcast, These Books Made Me. Today we're going to be talking about Double Love and Teacher Crush from the Sweet Valley High series by Francine Pascal. Friendly warning as always, this podcast contains spoilers. If you don't yet know who is the secret author of the Oracle's Eyes and Ears gossip column, proceed with caution.
SPEAKER_11:So was this everyone's first time reading? If not, how did this reread compare to your memories of reading it when you were younger?
SPEAKER_10:So I might be the only one that read any of these when I was younger. I don't think I got as far as book 15. I know I read some of them. I truly probably remember more about this board game that we're going to play later than I do about the books. I remember... Elizabeth being the nice twin, and I thought that Jessica was more just bratty. I didn't remember her being so bad. So this was a really, it was an interesting but fun reread because, wow, these are so unhinged. I
SPEAKER_05:can't wait
SPEAKER_10:to talk about them.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah. So as Heather alluded to, Like the rest of us didn't read it. So I definitely did not grow up reading these books. My main takeaway was that I while I didn't grow up reading them, they felt familiar somehow. And I think it had to do maybe with that article that you linked, Hannah, about how it really influenced a lot of teen pop culture around its era. It just it felt familiar to me in that way, even though I've never read it. So I'm excited to talk about it.
SPEAKER_03:I love that. I think I feel like I remember seeing the books around, maybe like in like around the same places I was maybe seeing like babysitters clubs books type thing. But I have never read any of these. So this was interesting to get into. I'm excited to talk about it. Especially because they're twins. Like, I'm a twin.
SPEAKER_12:Our expert. Right. Yeah, you're going to be our twin consultant here.
SPEAKER_03:They're identical, though. So me and my sister are not. So that's interesting.
SPEAKER_12:I also did not read these. Like, I was aware of them, kind of like background noise. The series, like Babysitter's Club, they were just kind of there. I knew that they were being read by other people my age. Never picked them up. Until, you know, a week and a half ago.
SPEAKER_10:Well, I think we're all a little bit young for these. Like they were big a little bit before we were of the age to read it. Like looking back, I realize. So the reason that we have this game that we're going to play later is that I was given this board game, the Sweet Valley High board game as a birthday present when I was in like maybe fourth grade. If I was reading these at nine, obviously, these are a lot for a nine-year-old. And we would have been deep into the series at that point, because I think the first book in this came out, what, 83 or something? Yes. The
SPEAKER_12:first three were released in the fall of 83.
SPEAKER_10:So I don't know that any of us were old enough for this to be like... Although
SPEAKER_12:the original series ran until 2003. So, I mean, I guess it depends on how popular it was for people to start reading it when we were kids of the age to read that. But that is a good point, that it would have been... a brand new thing when we were too young to have a pickup. When we were babies.
SPEAKER_03:I love that you still have this game.
SPEAKER_10:It's not mine. I had to replace it. I think my parents finally got rid of mine, which was in much nicer condition than this. So this is a Poshmark special.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, wait. Yes, you did say
SPEAKER_10:that.
SPEAKER_11:I'm sorry. I was going to say, how are you admitting you don't like that? Mawa doesn't read the
SPEAKER_03:emails or the chat. I was like, this is a really interesting thing to still be holding on to all these years. So it makes sense that you didn't still hold on to it. Yeah, trust. I did not hold
SPEAKER_10:on to this game.
SPEAKER_03:But clearly somebody did.
SPEAKER_10:Someone did. All right. So we tackled two of the books in the series today. The first one, and then we kind of randomly picked book number 57. So we'll start with a plot summary for book number one, Double Love. Welcome to Sweet Valley, an affluent community located somewhere around L.A. where the women are strong, the men good looking, and the children are all above average. Actually, maybe none of those things are true. And instead, we have an L.A. bedroom community where the adults are checked out and the children are terrible. We meet the Wakefield twins, Elizabeth and Jessica. Both are beautiful. And one is a Pollyanna and the other is a literal evil twin. Anywho, big man on campus Todd is smitten with Elizabeth, the good twin. But that won't stand in Jessica's way. What Jessica wants, Jessica gets. Whether it's Elizabeth's new tuxedo shirt, the boy Elizabeth is pining for, or the family car. There's not a whole lot of plot in this book, but somehow a lot happens. The twins both get into the best sorority at Sweet Valley High, Pi Beta Alpha, and everyone is plotting to land a date to the Pi Epsilon dance. Jessica wants to go with Todd, so she spends the entire book lying and manipulating everyone around her to steal him from her sister. Elizabeth is a doormat and never really calls Jessica on any of her bullshit. but just mopes about how no one will ever see her when cheerleader Jessica is right there wearing her face and her tuxedo
SPEAKER_00:shirt. The nerve of her coming here with your face. What are you going to do about
SPEAKER_10:it? Jessica inexplicably goes on a date with dropout delinquent Rick Andover and goes to a biker bar with him.
SPEAKER_08:Lighten up, Francis.
SPEAKER_10:Where he gets a little handsy and then gets into a fight with another customer. Police are called and an officer takes Jessica home but thinks she's Elizabeth, which sets off rumors all over the school about Elizabeth's surprisingly terrible
SPEAKER_04:behavior.
SPEAKER_10:Jessica just runs with it because who cares about Elizabeth's reputation being trashed if Jess gets a date with Todd? Liz goes to the dance with nerdy but nice Winston Egbert. Todd is checked out all night because he's staring at Elizabeth, so Jessica makes up a story about an attempted date rape for reasons. She's really just leaning into the evil twin thing at this point. In a B-plot, the Wakefields' brother is maybe dating a girl with a bad reputation, so the family panics, but it turns out he's actually in love with her sister, who's a good girl trapped in a terrible family. In a C plot, they think their dad's having an affair, but he's not. He's just a really weird mentor to a fellow attorney. And in a D plot, Elizabeth is the secret gossip columnist for the school paper. And if anyone finds out, she'll be thrown in the pool. Bad boy Rick carjacks the twins and Todd sort of saves them. And he and Elizabeth realize they're meant for each other. And Jessica is evil, but they're going to let that slide because throwing Jessica in the pool because people think she's Elizabeth. is apparently enough of a punishment for being wretched to everyone she encounters.
SPEAKER_04:It
SPEAKER_11:wasn't.
SPEAKER_10:It was not at all enough.
SPEAKER_11:Oh, man.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, seriously. All right. Book two, which is actually book 57, Teacher Crush. So a lot happened since book one. Apparently, Liz has a long-term boyfriend named Jeff because Todd moved away. Lila Fowler's dad is dating a celebrity actress, and Jessica thinks she's a big ol' liar. Olivia from the school newspaper is an actual main character now. Olivia is super Eeyore-y because everyone has a boyfriend but her. Because her former boyfriend got adopted by the other rich family in town, the Patmans. No one seems clear on why this made them break up, but apparently it did, and Olivia is looking for love in all the wrong places now. The school is a buzz because Sweet Valley High is adding a non-credit course to everyone's schedule as some type of mandatory extracurricular.
SPEAKER_04:Anyways,
SPEAKER_10:we get way too many pages devoted to students making their mini course bias lists and breathlessly waiting to find out which mandatory club they get matched with. Everyone gets their first choice. It's going
SPEAKER_07:to be an attention grabber. It's going to be clown clothes. You are really rocking Halloween
SPEAKER_09:here. Maybe for the beginners, you would like to know how the hell he will start here. Winston
SPEAKER_10:gets electronics. Except Kara gets pottery, her second choice, and Jessica randomly gets electronics, her third choice, even though we heard about zero students getting their top choice, filmmaking. The painting girls meet their new teacher, dreamy edgelord Stuart Bachman. But just call him Stuart because that's how dreamy edgelords roll.
SPEAKER_09:Stuart, the photography in this is a miazong.
SPEAKER_07:I used an orange filter.
SPEAKER_10:Olivia falls head over heels for Stuart, who then completely ignores all the other students because he thinks Olivia is an art genius. Olivia has a real Sandy from Greece glow up moment and starts wearing all black leather outfits to school. Enid and Elizabeth argue about whether Olivia is in love with Stuart or not, but it quickly becomes clear to everyone that Olivia is obsessed.
SPEAKER_01:What am I supposed to do? You won't answer my calls. You change your number. I'm not going to be ignored.
SPEAKER_10:Like track down his address and ring his doorbell on the weekend obsessed.
SPEAKER_06:What are you doing
SPEAKER_10:here? Stuart has terrible boundaries and invites her in for coffee, takes her shopping and invites her to various receptions and parties. Olivia decides that Stuart is just waiting for her birthday to surprise her with gifts and I guess a relationship. That doesn't happen because on her birthday, Olivia goes to Stuart's art show, realizes that Stuart has an age-appropriate girlfriend, but quickly gets over it because he hung her painting in his art show. Oh, and Olivia's parents throw a surprise party for her and she starts dating a guy named Rod. Somewhere in the middle of all of this, Jessica manipulates Randy into helping her build a lie detector to try to expose Lila's lie about her dad dating a celebrity. The
SPEAKER_06:lie detector
SPEAKER_10:test determined you're telling the truth.
UNKNOWN:Yay!
SPEAKER_10:Except Lila's telling the truth and then picks this moment to drop a real bombshell and ask Liz if she's going to keep dating Jeff when Todd moves back to Sweet Valley. Oh, man. Boom.
SPEAKER_04:And
SPEAKER_03:on next week's episode of Sweet Valley High.
SPEAKER_11:You missed how it happens to also be Stuart's girlfriend's birthday on the same day. I forgot about that. And he gets her a picture
SPEAKER_10:frame.
SPEAKER_12:Right. Didn't you all think of her earrings? Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, but that was somehow like unrelated, I think. So confusing.
SPEAKER_11:But the picture frame was the present. The picture frame was so special. It was special because Olivia chose it. Right. So weird. And he got it from some really expensive antique shop.
SPEAKER_12:Okay, so a little bit about the author. Francine Pascal was born Francine Paula Rubin on May 5th, 1932 in New York City to Kate and William Rubin. She grew up in the Jamaica neighborhood in the Queensboro from the age of five onwards after her family moved there from Manhattan. Francine started writing poetry at age eight and enjoyed fairy tales, comic books, and movies. She kept a diary from a young age and started writing plays as well as poetry. Francine did not have a good high school experience, but looked forward to college. In a later interview, Pascal drew a parallel between going to high school in the 50s and going to high school in the 80s. Going to high school in the 50s, as I did, was not appreciably different from going to high school in the 80s. Both decades are conservative and full of nostalgia. Adolescence is pretty awful no matter when you go through it. And all of us think high school is wonderful for everyone else. The Sweet Valley series came out of what I fantasize high school was like for everyone but me. This was from an author and artist for Young Adult Interview in 2006. She studied journalism at New York University. In 1958, Francine married her first husband, Jerome Offenberg, and they had three daughters together. They divorced in 1963, and in 1964, she married John Pascal, a journalist who wrote for the New York Times, Newsday, and the Herald Tribune. Francine Pascal began publishing articles in magazines such as Modern Screen, Crew Confessions, Cosmopolitan, and Ladies Home Journal in the 1960s. Both she and her husband were hired to write together for the soap opera The Young Marrieds. This job only lasted for six months before the show moved to California, but John and Francine continued to write as a team. They wrote a book called George M. about the musical of the same name. This was co-written with Francine's brother, Michael Stewart, of Bye Bye Birdie and Hello Dolly fame. Francine and John's next work was nonfiction, The Strange Case of Patty Hearst, published in 1974. Next, Pascal turned her attention to young adult literature with the 1977 publication of Hanging Out with Cece. It would become a 1981 after-school special entitled My Mother Was Never a Kid. She next released My First Love and Other Disasters in 1979 and The Hand-Me-Down Kid in 1981, both novels also written for teenagers. Pascal's husband John died in 1981 before the advent of the Sweet Valley High series, and she has spoken in interviews about how she regrets that he didn't live to see the success of the series with her. Sweet Valley High's origins lie in Pascal wishing to create a soap opera series for teens. Although this idea didn't get off the ground, it may have been in the back of her mind when an editor suggested that she try creating a book series for teens with a Dallas TV series inspiration. Bantam Books agreed to publish the first books in the Sweet Valley High series and successfully marketed Pascal's creation to a wildly successful young adult series. The first three installments in the series, Double Love, Secrets, and Playing with Fire, were released in the fall of 1983. Pascal wrote the first 12 books in the series herself and then presided over a team of ghost writers who were guided by her and a Bible of lore and facts about the twins and the setting. Hundreds of books in the original series and the subsequent spinoffs have now been produced and millions of copies have sold worldwide in 27 languages. A TV series based on the original series aired from 1994 to 1997. Francine Pascal died of lymphoma on July 28th, 2024.
SPEAKER_10:I've heard the TV series is amazing, by the way.
SPEAKER_03:I'm over here Googling it right now. You can watch it on the internet archive. It looks really insane.
SPEAKER_10:So I do feel like we should maybe at some point do a bonus episode watching an episode of the show. I
SPEAKER_11:love that there's like a Bible of lore and facts. I want that.
SPEAKER_12:Yes, I want to see this. This is like a binder.
SPEAKER_11:It's like, well, now we know why they have to bring up certain things each time in every book.
SPEAKER_12:The lavaliers,
SPEAKER_11:the dimple.
SPEAKER_03:There were four seasons of this show, 88 episodes. Y'all, we have to watch.
SPEAKER_12:Back when they made like, you know, a serious number of episodes each season. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11:Are we just going to choose one random episode?
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. Maybe we watch the first one and then see if there's a Teacher Crush episode. I tried looking for that, actually.
SPEAKER_12:They didn't. I think there wasn't. They didn't get that far. They didn't do like a one-to-one. Okay. Let's create this book together. Teacher crush into it, but I think it might have inspired. I have to go back and look, but I think it might have inspired like themes in a plot line. So we can look to see if that appears.
SPEAKER_11:So I was going to say that had I read the first book, I probably would have chosen as like our second book, 37 or 137, just because it seems to mean something to Jessica because she always brings it up. So I was like, maybe we can choose the 37th. I
SPEAKER_12:was telling Hava before we wanted to record, like, I'm bummed. that we can't ask Francine Pascal what the significance of 37 is because she's no longer living. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:I legit could keep going with this series, y'all. I feel like it could be just an entire spinoff because it is so, so crazy.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:I kind of
SPEAKER_11:loved it. Yeah, I was reading it and then I was like, I actually don't, I would need to finish it, actually. And now I
SPEAKER_10:want to read the next one. Yeah, I just want to know what does happen when Todd comes back.
SPEAKER_03:I'm really into their world already and it only took me like two books. I'm curious about it, for sure. Yeah,
SPEAKER_10:I mean, they're truly terrible, but they're terrible in like a fun way to read versus like Sisterhood, where it was like, this is terribly written and I'm not enjoying myself. This I thoroughly enjoyed every second of the insanity that is Sweet Valley because, yeah, they cram so much nonsense into each book.
SPEAKER_11:I feel like the issue with Sisterhood is that they're all Elizabeths almost. Like they're all like, the author trying to convince you that they're all really good people, but then you're like, but they do all these things. Your behavior is so odd. Why are you like this? Yeah, whereas like in Sweet Valley High, you have Jessica where it's like, yeah, there's no redeeming qualities here. Not even after
SPEAKER_10:56 books. But my recollection was that Jessica was the character people liked. Like, that she was the one that people thought was the star, you know? And she's definitely
SPEAKER_04:evil.
SPEAKER_11:Maybe she's
UNKNOWN:She keeps the plot going. She does.
SPEAKER_11:I mean, she definitely brings the drama. Honestly, if she wasn't there, like, book one would not really have a plot.
SPEAKER_10:Nothing happens without Jessica there to do horrible things.
SPEAKER_03:Does she get better? Do you remember? Like, because this book, Teacher Crush, wasn't really much about her. I mean, she was kind of annoying in this one, but it didn't give, like, dang, you really hate your sister.
SPEAKER_10:No, she didn't really have much to do with Elizabeth in that one, but she spent the entire book scheming a way to catch Lila in a lie that wasn't a lie. Well, I don't know. It's Jessica. The whole thing with Randy seemed mean. She's a lot.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah. And also, the character Winston, is that A character like she ends up with or
SPEAKER_10:like might have something with? No, he was Enid's boyfriend was what I recalled. And I think he is in this game.
SPEAKER_12:Because if you have a character in books like this, if you have a character named Enid and a character named Winston. Those are the nerds. Obviously, those are the two that have to get together because look at their names.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. But then like the hot people are Todd and Rod, which is like, what? Well, maybe they were hot names in the 80s.
SPEAKER_03:Was Rod hot? I thought he was. No, Randy was the nerd.
SPEAKER_10:Oh, Olivia had to kind of settle for him over Stuart.
SPEAKER_02:Just platonic, Stuart. Is there a
SPEAKER_12:way to, like, determine... like the subjective perceived hotness of names in the 80s. I don't know. So I think we feel like we need to interview some people who went to school during
SPEAKER_10:that time. Yeah, I wasn't in high school in the 80s, so I don't know what the like hot guy names
SPEAKER_04:were. No, I'm kidding. Wow. I'm just kidding. I just wanted to see your face. Oh, it just burned me up here.
SPEAKER_12:Yikes. I think we can do some qualitative research on this. I mean, to be fair, If
SPEAKER_10:I went to high school in the 80s, I look
SPEAKER_12:great now.
SPEAKER_03:You take an amazing path. We're recording videos, so I could just zoom in on your face. I'm
SPEAKER_11:sorry. Okay. I was been in a mood all day.
SPEAKER_04:Everyone's been catching it. I'm so not.
SPEAKER_11:We should
SPEAKER_10:interview
SPEAKER_11:your
SPEAKER_10:sister.
SPEAKER_11:She might have different thoughts. Probably. So I think we kind of touched on this, but I think something that's really that stands out is sort of the writing style. It's very like a soap opera when you're reading it. I definitely felt that way when I was reading it after the first book. Actually, even after like 57, which was the one I read first, I was like, I kind of really want to read the next one. Like it kind of keeps you hooked and it always ends on some. And it's not really like that big, but it captures your attention. Yeah, it's a cliffhanger. And like you want to read the next one. What did you guys think about the writing style?
SPEAKER_10:Hannah's. summary where the author was handling Dallas makes a lot of sense because the ending is very like, who shot J.R.? Like, you know, oh, no, what's going to happen next? I mean, it's emotionally pitched. It's great, y'all. It is. It's a soap opera, but like in the most like fun but unhinged way possible. I loved it. It was terrible, but I loved it. And I think if she was going for a soap opera tone, she definitely succeeded. I think there was certainly a space for this for teens, even though I was not a teen at the time. You know, I think about like shows that were more, I guess, after this. So like more 90s kind of soapy stuff for tweens and teens. And they were a lot more like earnest and sincere. This is not at all. I don't think like at no point did I feel like, oh, the author is trying to be like really sincere about this or like, oh, we're supposed to get some kind of lesson for this. I didn't get that. It was just like, what are the like most extreme things I can throw in here with this still being teen appropriate.
SPEAKER_03:Which makes sense because in Hannah's summary, she did mention that she was like, yeah, I kind of just wrote what I maybe imagined or like a fantasy of like what high school was for teens
SPEAKER_10:and 80s. This is her fantasy. It's wild for me.
SPEAKER_11:But it reads that way. Sorry, Hannah. No, no, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say it reads that way. Like someone is like, this is what I think high schoolers are like and not really like.
SPEAKER_12:She said specifically, I didn't include this in the author bio, but I was reading some interviews for her when I was doing research into it, and she said specifically she was not– when she started writing them, she was not trying to make it realistic. And she said that they actually– Well, she actually adjusted to make it a little bit more realistic when people started writing in to say, oh, this really describes my experience. And she was like, really? Okay. I guess maybe more of the emotional feeling than like– literal offense.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, I guess I just think of the 80s as very, like, cocaine-fueled. And you don't get any of that kind of thing in here, though it would make a lot of stuff make a lot more sense.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, I think in the first book, the first mention of, like, even just alcohol kind of, like, sends everyone, like, judging and, like, I wonder if she, like, use drugs or let not her self use drugs but like if she put it in a plot at some point in one of the future books because it doesn't you think so okay
SPEAKER_10:there's got to be given like just when we were looking at some of the the summaries of the later books just to decide which one to read second i felt like those were so bananas certainly at some point she must have touched on someone has a drug problem or a drinking problem or something right i
SPEAKER_12:i did i think that I know you said that these didn't feel like didactic, like after-school specials. No, there's no moral at all. I did find some indication that there are some morality tale elements built into these. Even if it's kind of... It's coded. It's like when you're giving a dog a pill surrounded in peanut butter, maybe? Like, it's coded in the wild craziness of the plot. I don't know. But, like, if you...
SPEAKER_10:She did apparently write one called On the Edge. I guess this girl, Regina, who we do not meet in the books that we read. This is book 40. Breaks up with Bruce Patman. Well, he dumps her. And she uses drugs once and dies.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah, I mean, I do think... Olivia here, she... Her teacher crush... I mean, I know we're not talking about
SPEAKER_10:that. Oh, he's definitely using cocaine.
SPEAKER_12:Sure. I'm not talking... I'm not saying that, but I mean, like, she has this whole teacher crush. And she gets kind of embarrassed. And so it's... I do think there's a little bit of a morality adjustment there. Jessica gets thrown into the pool after doing all the... Wild nonsense she does. I don't
SPEAKER_10:know. Yeah, just for context on that one, the two rich families, the Fowlers and the Patmans, are fighting over what is to be done with the high school football field, which is really weird because why doesn't that belong to the high school? Into a factory. The kids are very upset. So they go to court. Weirdly, I don't even understand like why it's going to court at all. But our intrepid reporter, Elizabeth, goes to the court hearing to report on it and then does a terrible job. Well, she does. Also, she's the gossip columnist. I like I don't. Why is she reporting on a court case?
SPEAKER_11:Well, didn't they say that you don't know that she's the gossip columnist?
SPEAKER_10:Well, yeah, she's the secret guy. So you think this is her cover? Yeah. I'm the court reporter for high school. She's also this.
SPEAKER_11:But it's also like a conflict of interest. And I know they talk about it, but I'm also like, your dad's the lawyer on the case. I don't know that you should have been the one to have been sent to report
SPEAKER_10:on it. Well, her dad is only kind of the lawyer because it's really his ambiguous partner's It seems like Mariana. Yeah. So he has a hot partner at his firm and everyone thinks they're having an affair. And I would, too. I would, too, because, yes, that relationship is odd for a professional relationship. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11:Stephen saw them and it was like Sunday and it was like evening,
SPEAKER_10:like Sunday night. And he's never coming home for dinner because he's always like out with her, not like working on the case. It sounds like they are out on the town. Out and about, yeah. And then he's hugging her. And like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:And then she kisses on the cheek, but then also like kisses the wife on the cheek. And I'm just like, what's
SPEAKER_10:happening?
SPEAKER_11:Like he puts her his arm around her. And then like, that's what Elizabeth is. I think it was Elizabeth that witnessed that. But I was like, yeah, I would be confused, too. That's like weird behavior, because if that's a coworker, I don't know that that's how you would act with your coworker. Yeah,
SPEAKER_10:it's it's odd. But apparently he's the world's best coworker. touchy-feely mentor ever. And she wins the case.
SPEAKER_03:They don't know boundaries in this series.
SPEAKER_10:No one has any boundaries. Boundaries.
SPEAKER_11:Well, but then how would you have any like, what is it? Just like people misunderstanding your actions if you didn't
SPEAKER_10:do inappropriate things all the
SPEAKER_12:time. In Sweet Valley, there are no boundaries.
SPEAKER_10:Well, and everyone wants to keep secrets about everything. So no one can know who the gossip columnist is. No one can know who the brother whose name I forget. Stephen. Stephen. Who he was dating. Why? Like you're a grown person. Who cares? Why are you keeping it a secret that you're dating the nice sister?
SPEAKER_03:Right. And then like to the point.
SPEAKER_10:Well, her family's trashy.
SPEAKER_03:To the point where like you you come home from college to hang out with her, but you only hang out with her at her. house
SPEAKER_10:yeah because he's embarrassed of her family but it's like that's never really there's she should be really upset about that and she should have stayed broken up from him because that's really gross I mean I know he admits it and was like yeah sorry I thought your family was so trashy my bad like I didn't want people to know I was with you but like even being honest about that I feel that's a deal breaker yeah like
SPEAKER_03:People's families go through things like their mom died from leukemia.
SPEAKER_12:If he didn't want to be seen with her family, shouldn't they have met in a location other than their house? I feel like he wasn't doing this. Well, no, because I think they lived in the
SPEAKER_10:bad part of town.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, so if you was over there, you ain't had no business saying anything that you saw me anyway.
SPEAKER_10:Because only like the bad, like Rick Andover or whatever his name is, would be over in that part of town probably. That never made any sense either. What was going on with that guy? I have no idea. That was so odd. He's stealing people's cars with them in it.
SPEAKER_03:That was crazy. I was having such a hard time trying to picture that.
SPEAKER_12:I had to read some of that text. seen several times. I'm like, wait, that doesn't seem physically possible.
SPEAKER_11:I just imagine Jessica gets out the way and is like, yeah, just take
SPEAKER_03:the car. Where was she? Was he sitting on her at this point? Exactly. That was what I was like, how is
SPEAKER_10:this even physically working? Yeah. And then they're going so fast, but like Todd can see Elizabeth's facial expression enough that he's like, I gotta beat this guy up now. She's scared. What? Where... And where were they
SPEAKER_03:going? And the car sounded pretty small, right?
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, because it's like a little sporty like coupe or something, right? It's like a little like red.
SPEAKER_03:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_10:And then he takes
SPEAKER_11:them to
SPEAKER_04:Kelly's. Kelly's. Sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, just because he wanted to, like, show up the bartender.
SPEAKER_10:Right, but like, why are you bringing these girls with you? Yeah, no. You can't kick me out of here. Heaven
SPEAKER_06:and heavenly. I'm Larry. This is my brother, Daryl. And this is my other brother, Daryl.
SPEAKER_10:I'm coming back to get beat up again.
SPEAKER_03:also when they're like yeah you should just I think when Todd saves them saves them
SPEAKER_10:beats up the bad
SPEAKER_03:guy yeah he's like yeah you should just go home and like rest it off and I'm just like okay we're just gonna avoid ignore the fact that he's drunk
SPEAKER_10:yeah I
SPEAKER_03:worry I'm not having somebody call the police on him at this point like
SPEAKER_10:How come going to Kelly's like destroyed? Well, it wasn't even Elizabeth that went to Kelly's, the biker bar. It was Jessica who then let everyone think it was Elizabeth.
SPEAKER_06:I'm Larry. This is my brother, Daryl. And this is my other brother, Daryl.
SPEAKER_10:But like, why would that
SPEAKER_12:Who cares about that in high school? They're acting like she's Lydia who ran off with Mr. Wickham.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah. Yeah, and it kind of sounded that that was the issue, was also that she was with Rick. Because it's like if you're with Rick, that tells me a lot
SPEAKER_05:more about you.
SPEAKER_10:It's very weird. I feel like this high school, in a lot of ways, is kind of... You know, it's Gossip Central. Everyone's trying to be so cool. But then they're like super judgy about underage drinking and some heavy petting. Like,
SPEAKER_03:why? But they also kind of hyped it up a little bit. Like they made it seem like, quote unquote, Elizabeth, who was there, was the one that started the brawl in the bar and that she got arrested and taken back home.
SPEAKER_10:But why wouldn't that give her like mad street cred with them? Like they're Hester printing her over this. That would have made her more popular. Like she's running with a fast
SPEAKER_03:crowd
SPEAKER_10:now.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, like, oh, she's a badass. Not, oh, she's a
SPEAKER_11:dumbass. I wonder if it would have, like, I wonder what the reaction would have been had it come out that it was Jessica. I
SPEAKER_03:wanted it to because I
SPEAKER_11:because I wonder if it's like Elizabeth also had this reputation. And so I think people are just like you're not upholding like your reputation. She was a hypocrite. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. And then if it was Jessica, maybe it would have seemed cooler because what she does is
SPEAKER_08:that usually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11:Why does anyone like Jessica?
SPEAKER_08:She's awful to
SPEAKER_11:everyone. Oh, my God. Every time her sister would forgive her for something and be like, she looks so distraught about it. She's crying again. She
SPEAKER_10:was
SPEAKER_11:always crying. Always
SPEAKER_10:just
SPEAKER_11:manipulating you. But she both clocks the manipulation and then also gives into it. Yeah, it's very weird. Yeah, it was really frustrating. I was like, man, if that was my twin...
SPEAKER_03:And every time you think Jessica's going to redeem herself, she tries to tell Todd that it was really her. And Todd's just like, that's so honorable of you. And honestly, she was terrible from the first page. First of all, she was literally in the mirror talking about how hideous she was. And Elizabeth's like, well, if you're hideous, then what am I? We're literally identical down to the shoulders. Look away. I'm hideous.
SPEAKER_11:But then Elizabeth later is like, well, why wouldn't would someone choose
SPEAKER_10:me over Jessica? I'm next to Jessica.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah. And it's like you look the same. You just said that you guys look the same. Like you had.
SPEAKER_10:And she's wearing your clothes. So it's not even like your clothes are bad or
SPEAKER_11:anything.
SPEAKER_12:It's a real head scratch. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm just like anybody who actually gets it. I just can't fathom why anybody who would actually get to know them would pick. Jessica over Elizabeth?
SPEAKER_10:Me either. And why is their family so like tolerant of Jessica being a sociopath? Like they just are like, oh, that's Jessica. What? No. Stop letting her act like this to everyone. Where are the consequences?
SPEAKER_11:Oh, yeah, no.
SPEAKER_10:She's
SPEAKER_11:too pretty.
SPEAKER_10:She gets thrown in a pool. But
SPEAKER_11:she
SPEAKER_10:looks just like Elizabeth. It's like she's too pretty for consequences, but Elizabeth's chopped liver.
SPEAKER_03:I think Elizabeth thinks more about her sister than Jessica thinks about her. Because Elizabeth also had this crush on Todd, but she kept from saying anything because she knew... that Jessica had a crush on Todd. And Jessica basically is like blocking Todd every little bit of the way. And even after she starts to suspect that her sister has a crush on Todd, then she starts saying like, oh, well, we went on a date and he tried too many things and I was just doing it for your own good. And like, what? And I'm like, I just feel like they didn't make a big enough deal about her lying about something
SPEAKER_10:like that. No, nothing... Nothing ever happened from that other than she gets thrown in the pool. Like, if I was Todd, I would just have wrecked her reputation at school. Like, no, we're not going to do this, Jessica. Like, you're not going to accuse me of rape, basically. Except,
SPEAKER_11:yeah, but it's also weird because Elizabeth is very upset about it. But then, like, whatever Jessica's, like, mumbling about, saying that she did it for her own good or whatever, it's like... Like, why is that? Yeah. Then it's like, OK. I mean, I guess she then comes up with like the punishment, which is just to throw like thrown into the pool. But I just she just lets it go way too easily. And I
SPEAKER_03:have the perfect punishment. Yeah. Why is that your first thought?
SPEAKER_11:Yeah. And clearly, like none of these things actually make Jessica be a better person. Not at all. I was thinking like, I mean, yeah, we were at 57, but like she was not the main character in that one. So it's like hard to see like if she actually grows as a character. But there's a part of me that wanted to like keep reading to see if any of these lessons like come up later or if she has any sort of plan. I feel like there are hints, obviously, that Elizabeth is tired by the like role she plays as the good twin. I get the frustration, but does it actually come to anything? Like, Is there like some heart to heart or like some lessons that both of them learn about, you know, the things that they kind of do to one another, but mostly Jessica doing to Elizabeth and Elizabeth just like accepting. I kind of wonder if they ever touch on that and actually like have any sort of resolution or character development, anything.
SPEAKER_03:Jessica says stuff like, oh, there's nobody more important to me than you. And I'm like, so you treat everybody terrible because this is how you treat somebody who's the most important to you.
SPEAKER_10:It's all just manipulation.
SPEAKER_03:She's so manipulative. Like, Literally in the part where they're like, oh, I was just doing it just to help you for your own good. And Elizabeth was like, no, you're full of it. You just want to get rid of the competition. And Jessica's like, well, you know what? You're right. I guess I did like Todd a little, but honestly, I didn't realize he was so important to you. Besides, it all turned out okay because he really does like you. He certainly showed it tonight. He's a terrific person and I'm really happy for both of you. Like, girl, what? Because now you don't like him because... you felt like he didn't show you enough attention. Mind you, you knew from the beginning that he was interested in your sister and not you. So why are you surprised that he wasn't giving you no love? To the point where she tried to be like, oh yeah, Elizabeth's always busy. She has dates and she... Yeah. She totally
SPEAKER_10:was like, nah, my sister gets around.
SPEAKER_05:I had about 56 boyfriends. I probably would have had more, but I wasn't allowed to start dating until I was a senior.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, basically. Like that could have gone really badly.
SPEAKER_10:And then let everybody think that her sister was the one at the biker
SPEAKER_03:party. She's so irritating. I wouldn't throw my Kindle away anytime Jessica did anything. She's pathological, man.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then the way she would try to pivot from like important conversations, they would try to have important conversations. She'd be like, I just can't with this right now. No,
SPEAKER_10:I truly feel like Jessica probably turns into like a serial killer by the end of this series because there is... nothing redeemable about her that we see, because even in 57, where she's not like a main character particularly, she's still manipulating everybody. She's taking advantage of Randy. The only reason she wanted to be in electronics was Hot Boys. When she sees that it's all nerds, she's like, man, I messed up. I'm not going to do this project. And then Ends up taking credit for Randy's work at the end of things anyways. Uses her project just to manipulate people more. It's a stupid lie
SPEAKER_03:detector. That
SPEAKER_10:is all messed up. Like pulse rate and blood pressure measurements are not the same thing. And they say like they put a thimble on the finger that they say is going to measure her pulse rate. But then give the measurement is like 120 over 80. That is blood pressure. That's not a pulse rate. What is happening? I
SPEAKER_12:think later on, it's giving it as a single number, like a pulse number, though.
SPEAKER_10:But then why did they give it as blood pressure at the beginning? That's bad science.
SPEAKER_03:And then she makes that in like a week. Mind you, she doesn't even really make it. Randy makes it, but Randy also has to finish his own project. Two
SPEAKER_12:weeks for these mini courses is way too short. Well, especially if people are making
SPEAKER_11:like very elaborate
SPEAKER_07:things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11:In electronic. Oh, Lila's dress.
SPEAKER_07:She's going to be an attention grabber. It's going to be clowns.
SPEAKER_10:Lila's dress with the inside out darts.
SPEAKER_11:Yes. Inside out darts. Just her messing it up anytime she wants. to like try to fix it the fact that she's like mortified that she has to wear it now at the showcase
SPEAKER_10:but then she just borrows Jessica's dress that Jessica was so mean about and was like oh I have that dress like what
SPEAKER_03:girl what like obviously she's gonna be like
SPEAKER_10:I just bought it off the rack that isn't special okay
SPEAKER_03:And then she tried to be like, well, yeah, I have some tea for you. So, you know, I'm not going to tell you unless you borrow the dress. Give
SPEAKER_10:me your dress and I'll tell you a
SPEAKER_11:secret. So, yeah, essentially, Lila wanted to borrow Jessica's dress. That was her inspiration to begin with so that it comes off as if she
SPEAKER_10:made the dress. I was clearly going to have like a made in Taiwan tag in it or
SPEAKER_03:something like what? I think she did that on purpose. She just wanted the dress to begin with.
SPEAKER_11:What did you guys think about Todd or really any of the guys on this book? But I did not like Todd. Like, I... don't see... Like, I am not following along their, like, romantic story. Like, I don't want them to end up together. And I understand, like, Elizabeth is not a really faithful person anyway, so maybe they are better suited to one another, but he was just kind of really frustrating. Like, he was just judging her all the time. Like, I know that that was part of the misunderstanding. Yeah, like, do you even really like her if, like...
SPEAKER_10:Well, I mean, I think in his head he liked that she was the Pollyanna. Like... She's smart. She's responsible. She's just as pretty as Jessica, but without all the drama. And then he finds out, no, she's going to biker bars with this gross dude. And like, I mean, I guess I could kind of see that because everyone, including her sister, were acting like that actually happened. So like that would be if you thought you knew somebody a certain way. Hey, I don't know that she really likes me anyways, because I've been trying to get with her for a minute. And I'm not getting anything back, even though that was Jessica. He didn't know that. Then maybe you're talking yourself out of having the crush because you're like, well, she's not the girl I thought she was anyway.
SPEAKER_11:But what's so weird to me is that you have an opportune moment where Jessica tells you that it was actually her that did it. And then instead of believing her because you want Elizabeth to be the good twin, you are like, well, no. Well, it must be Jessica being sacrificial.
SPEAKER_10:But I think they were acting like People thought the gossip had two sources, the cop and then the whoever Kara or whoever the girl was. So like, I think they were really taking it as gospel that it was Elizabeth and not Jessica because they had like witnesses. I mean, I don't know why you'd believe a word out of Jessica's mouth ever. But yeah, I mean, I think that was what he was running with. But bless his heart. He seems like kind of a dummy.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah. Yeah. It's just so annoying. I just couldn't. Yeah, even just the fact that, like, he was still, like, longingly looking at Elizabeth. Like, at this point, yeah, at this point, like, he knows that, or he, you know, quote-unquote, thinks he knows that she's the twin that was, like, at the... Obviously, that, like, was picked up by cops. But then she... I don't know. Like, he's... But she's in a white dress. Yeah, he's still looking at her and it's like, oh, I thought Jessica was the twin that you now really liked because she seems like the good twin. So I'm just kind of confused by
SPEAKER_03:his actions. Everything he knows about Jessica, I don't know what would make him think that she was taking the fall for her sister. And even everything after you believed that, Nothing about that shows that that's what she would have done. But like you said, he was a little bit of a dummy. He was a big dummy.
SPEAKER_10:He was. Yeah, the boys in these books are very two-dimensional. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:The men aren't any better because I feel
SPEAKER_10:like we haven't talked a lot about teacher crush. Oh, dear God.
SPEAKER_02:Just platonic, Stuart.
SPEAKER_10:That man had no boundaries at all. You should not be in a classroom, sir.
SPEAKER_11:No, it's actually great that he's not. Thank God it's only two weeks. He
SPEAKER_03:could
SPEAKER_11:have gotten himself in a lot more
SPEAKER_03:trouble. I pictured him as Ezra from Pretty Little Liars the whole time. And I also thought it was like, So it was funny how Olivia, that was her name, right? Olivia found the magazine that he was in. I'm like, this is an expert level. Before she even did the apartment, I was like, this is an expert. I literally, my note in my Kindle says, this is an expert level of stalking, especially considering that they didn't have the internet back then. So she just really just happened to find this magazine that he was in. I thought that was going to be the exhibit. She went and got the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature and like indexed it. And then she reached out to the alumni that association of his college to get his address. And she was like, oh, but it didn't have his phone number. I didn't think she was going to go up to the door, but then she does. And he's like, after a couple of rings, it's like 1030
SPEAKER_10:in the morning on a Saturday. Sorry, I don't wake up till noon. I was on a real bender last night, basically. Okay. Why
SPEAKER_03:did he
SPEAKER_10:let her into his
SPEAKER_03:house? That was weird. Why was he not weirded out by the fact that she knew where he lived?
SPEAKER_10:You need to set a boundary, sir, and be like, Olivia, I haven't given you my address. This is very inappropriate.
SPEAKER_11:That's what I thought the conversation was going to be when
SPEAKER_03:she ran in. Not getting even closer to her. Let's go shopping. Though I will say I was pleasantly surprised that everybody's reaction as far as the teens, they were all just like, no, he's too old for you.
SPEAKER_10:That's
SPEAKER_03:a bad idea. I really liked that because I thought it was going to be like, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening for you. I love that. But they were all just like, no, he's too old for you. Like, girl, what? He's 23. Oh my God. And of course, he's the art
SPEAKER_10:teacher. Like, yeah, I don't know. It's always it's always art, drama, English music. Yeah, it's always. Yeah. Gosh, come on. Do better, y'all. The teens were the ones who were like, this is wildly wrong. No, it never is the math teacher or the
SPEAKER_12:world history teacher. Or the electronics teacher. What did they compare him to? They compared him with something that was hilarious. I think I highlighted
SPEAKER_03:it. Actually, I'm going to circle
SPEAKER_12:back. It was some sort of like animal, like creepy animal. Oh, no. like Jessica was so grossed out by like his I don't know his suit or his glasses or something I don't know yeah
SPEAKER_11:it's so funny the way that it's like they um or at least the book presents itself like oh yeah like this this is the adult to pay attention to because they are attractive and then this is the one we don't pay attention to because they're not attractive and he was like
SPEAKER_12:the most appropriate teacher he's like I'm so glad you're taking this class not enough young women take electronics and then he was like he was really trying and he was like Jessica could you please try to be on time for my class. Like, he was, like, there trying to, like... He was a real teacher.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. Oh, God. The Stuart thing was ridiculous. Like, first of all, dude, don't go into the room with people five years younger than you and be like, call me Stuart.
SPEAKER_08:Stuart! Wow. These canyons you painted look like real canyons. Yeah. You
SPEAKER_12:need to establish a little bit of authority when you're that close in age.
SPEAKER_11:And then don't, like... ignore every other student for one star pupil.
SPEAKER_03:You said she was already good, so she really didn't need all that extra attention. No, and it was obvious to the rest of the
SPEAKER_10:class. Enid and Elizabeth were not wrong. It does seem like he's given her a lot more attention than everyone else. Yeah, something's going on. You only have
SPEAKER_12:two weeks. You need to visit Each student's painting.
SPEAKER_11:No,
SPEAKER_04:he did not care about their art at all.
SPEAKER_11:I wonder how Enid felt when Elizabeth was trying not to believe that it was true that Olivia had a crush on the teacher. She was like, well, you know, she is the most talented. I was like, Elizabeth, please.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, total Pollyanna moment. But then Enid, long-suffering Enid is like, Wow, that's kind of hurtful that Elizabeth can't see this. I'm just going to keep trying. She'll come around.
SPEAKER_11:And then when she does, it's like, oh, you see, like, it wasn't just me. Yeah. Oh, my God. I was like, Elizabeth, it's obvious. Please.
SPEAKER_03:Olivia was so miserable in the beginning. Like, she literally said, everyone I know is part of a couple. This school feels like Noah's Ark or something.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. And then it's like, okay, but we never understand why her boyfriend and why did they break up? He just got adopted. Yeah. I don't understand why that would make you break up with him, Betty. I wonder. Yeah. Was it like, oh, I'm rich now. You're not good enough for me. I feel like this needs a book. Yeah. Maybe it wasn't a book. Maybe so. Like
SPEAKER_11:a B.
SPEAKER_10:I think Elizabeth even said something like. no one really understood what had happened there. So maybe a later book.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah. Or maybe like something that like maybe they did have a conversation and then like the writers are just kind of Assuming that you would have, yeah, would have like read that. Maybe it wasn't
SPEAKER_12:apparent to that character. Maybe it was, I mean, there were like nearly 200 books. Maybe it was covered in one.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. So maybe that's, yeah, maybe there's a book and it's a secret to everybody else. But we know that his rich uncle said you can't have the money unless you give up this girl. And I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Also, why did her parents invite that man and his girlfriend to her party? How would they even have? I mean, I guess they knew that she was like really into like the art class that she was taking. But how
SPEAKER_10:did they have his contact info?
SPEAKER_03:That was weird too. And it's only been like, she was only taking it for two weeks. And so I'm just like, Maybe they knew she was really into the course, but I'm just like, okay, that wouldn't be enough, I feel like, for you to want to invite him. And that's weird. I have never
SPEAKER_10:ever been to a party where someone invited the teacher for a high schooler.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Especially considering that, I mean, I'm guessing they obviously don't know the extent of her feelings about him. But
SPEAKER_10:why didn't they notice she totally changed her style and went from bohemian... you know, artsy stuff to like biker chick overnight. Like, wouldn't you be like, honey, is everything okay? Wow. What's going
SPEAKER_03:on? And then for them to have like ignored their plans to cancel their plans on her birthday to go because it was Monica's birthday. Also, they had the same birthday, which was interesting.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, that
SPEAKER_03:was also too much.
SPEAKER_10:Oh, God. Yeah. That whole thing was Stuart was terrible. It was okay for her. And she was She was scary. Why is she stalking someone like that?
SPEAKER_03:I think Monica should have been more concerned. Not like jealous, but like maybe somebody needs to set the boundaries down
SPEAKER_11:here. Yeah. No, instead she was like, yeah, that's for my birthday.
SPEAKER_10:Let's go. Monica should have been really worried about like Olivia murdering her and wearing her skin or something.
SPEAKER_07:It rubs the lotion on its skin. It does this whenever it's told. No, this isn't
SPEAKER_10:cute.
SPEAKER_11:No, for me, I was just like, why would I want to go to your students' birthday parties? On my birthday? Yeah, on my own birthday. Like, why are we not celebrating my birthday? Like, yeah, that's just our people. Well, they gave her a picture frame, Darlene. The birthday is done. The birthday is done. Celebrate. No, but then he was like, she was like, oh, yeah, we're going to celebrate my birthday tomorrow. And I was like, no, that's like grounds for a breakup. Yeah. Now, this is not related, but I was every time I thought of Olivia, I was picturing the like the lead character of She's All That because she's also kind of like an artsy and also like that. Like I kept that's who I kept picturing.
SPEAKER_03:Why? Like why? Why?
SPEAKER_10:Are they getting paid to teach these classes? None of that makes any sense. Yeah, because they have other jobs. But then you're making them do
SPEAKER_11:this during work hours?
SPEAKER_03:Right, because he said he was an artist. He's not making money like that anyway. And these would have been
SPEAKER_10:really short classes, too, because they only shaved five minutes off the other periods to build these classes. So it's like, how much art can you do in like 30 minutes?
SPEAKER_11:Yeah. And how much can you do in two weeks?
SPEAKER_10:And did the filmmaking class just not happen? Because no one seems to get filmmaking.
SPEAKER_03:But at the end of the exhibit, whatever, they had... Oh,
SPEAKER_10:someone did do the film?
SPEAKER_03:They said they had the films playing on TV monitors around. I missed that. Oh, I missed that too. Because I was just like, oh, I forgot that this was a thing. Because they focused so much on the other classes.
SPEAKER_10:And then they were like, the PTA made us do this. Like the mini sessions. It's like the PTA doesn't determine the curriculum at a school. In a rich school, maybe. But it's not a private school. It's like public. So it's like, what's happening here?
SPEAKER_03:Elizabeth told Jessica, don't put nothing on that list that you don't want to do. And she put electronics third. And she's surprised she ended up with it. Granted, she's like, well, everybody else got their first or second choice. But like, come on. Why would you write it down if you know you didn't want to do it? That's all I had to
SPEAKER_10:say. She thought that there would be more boys. She was right. They just weren't the boys she wanted to look at, which is very rude. I
SPEAKER_03:feel like we haven't talked a lot about the body imaging issues in this book. It's so interesting because right out the gate, we are like, I'm hideous.
SPEAKER_09:Look away. Right
SPEAKER_03:before I started the book, I saw a post on threads that said, I feel like the Sweet Valley High series is in part to blame for my partial eating disorder growing up. And I'm like, wow, this is right on time for when I'm about to start this book. And apparently in some of the other books, they talk about the girls being a perfect size six, which they later go back and change to a perfect size two or something. I think
SPEAKER_12:it becomes a size four. Four?
SPEAKER_10:Maybe they changed it to a two later. Well, vanity sizing happened, so maybe they had to retcon it back.
SPEAKER_11:Probably because four back then.
SPEAKER_10:Back then would have been very tiny. That would be like a zero now. And also, these girls definitely would have been in juniors clothes at this point. They wouldn't have been fours and sixes. They would have been ones and threes and fives. Yeah. So that was not authentic. Yeah, those are women's
SPEAKER_12:sizes, which
SPEAKER_10:don't fit a lot. They definitely wouldn't have been shopping. Don't fit small high schoolers. One, they wouldn't have been shopping. Those clothes would have looked old. They would
SPEAKER_12:have been matronly.
SPEAKER_10:Definitely Jessica would have been, you know, more in the junior section looking for something. Is
SPEAKER_12:that how sizing worked for teens in the 80s?
SPEAKER_10:I'm pretty sure because it was certainly in the 90s, you had a separate junior section that was like 135. It was the odd number sizes versus the women's.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah, I'm just wondering
SPEAKER_03:if... That's why that store was called 579. I remember 579.
SPEAKER_12:And that's where they would have been shopping. I'm just wondering if... I'm just thinking of Francine Pascal being a mom of teenagers around that time, if... 579
SPEAKER_10:definitely existed in the late 80s. Really? I didn't know that. I remember seeing it at the mall when I was a kid. It was purchased by Edison Brothers Stores in 1970. What
SPEAKER_11:was the tween one? Delia's? No. There was Limited 2. You get that by catalog.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, but there was a Delia's, I think, in Columbia Mall. Oh, really? Justice? That was tween-ish, right? I think Limited 2 became Justice.
SPEAKER_11:yeah I think the only thing we haven't really touched on is the evil twin trope Jekyll and Hyde you know what's so funny is that every time I read like we read anything I always like in my mind just instinctively like connected to something like pop culture related and I was like sinners just came out with twins and they were
SPEAKER_03:also identical
SPEAKER_11:identical and they also have like really opposing well not super opposing but like you know, opposing characteristics. And I remember people being like, you know, twins are not really like that night and day. Like usually they share a lot of like common traits. But yeah, is there anything that we kind of wanted to discuss about the twins?
SPEAKER_10:Well, I guess, are we meant to see? So that's where I got confused in book one. You were introducing these characters. Are we meant to see Jessica as an evil twin? Or are we meant to just be like, that's just how popular people are? I
SPEAKER_03:feel like it's just meant to be like, that's just how popular people are. But I think reading this as adults and also reading this in 2025, we're like, yeah, no, she's kind of evil. Yeah. Because it's just like, You can clearly see that you're hurting your sister and you don't have any kind of... And she wouldn't do that to you. You know that. And I also think I feel very strongly about this because I'm a twin. Me and my sister are not identical. We're fraternal. But like,
SPEAKER_10:come on. And presumably one of you is not evil. Yeah, you know?
SPEAKER_11:Yeah. I mean, I wondered that too. And I would imagine that they got feedback pretty soon after the release of the first three books. So I'm sure they knew Jessica was popular. So... I don't know. Yeah, I think... Yeah, because that's
SPEAKER_10:my memory is that Jessica was like the main character that people thought was cool. She was the fun one. And Lila was the mean girl, which, yeah, is wild because how could someone be meaner than Jessica?
SPEAKER_11:To
SPEAKER_10:her own flesh and blood. She's horrible.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, Lila has her moments, but I feel like, yeah, in book 57, like teacher crush, like she's just, I mean... She does keep bringing up her dad, like being in a relationship with a celebrity, but But yeah, there's nothing like mean girl about her necessarily. She's just like, that's her truth. And like Jessica's like, that's not her truth.
SPEAKER_12:I'm assuming she features more in other books. Yeah, there's Lila books. I didn't come away with a strong impression of Lila from what we read
SPEAKER_10:at all. And she's like Jessica's bestie.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:But that's not clear in the two books that we read. Like they're more frenemies. But she is like the best friend to Jessica. They're the two queen bees of the school.
SPEAKER_12:So maybe Jessica just like Outsources her bad reputation to Lila. It's like a Dorian Gray picture in an attic
SPEAKER_10:situation. Lila just gets older and uglier. Jessica gets more beautiful. That's so weird.
SPEAKER_03:It's funny. I always get this question of like, oh, between you and your sister, who's the evil one or who's the smart one? Oh, does that happen? That's so rude. They'll do the whole smart twin, dumb twin thing. Oh my gosh, people are weird. That
SPEAKER_11:happens a lot because like sister, sister was kind of like that too. Like Tia was the smart one and then Tamera was like not so smart. Yeah,
SPEAKER_10:to give them separate personalities. It was like to make them almost polar opposites on some level.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, like you had to like so that you could relate to one and like maybe someone else would relate to another. And I feel like another thing that happens with twins in media is often like denoting a color to them. Like I always felt like between like Mary Kate was always a tomboy. So she was always blue. And then Ashley was always the like feminine. Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_10:And so she was pink. And I have that association with this. So maybe it's because of the board games. But my recollection was that Jessica usually got like pink covers if she was the main and Elizabeth they coded as a pretty blue.
SPEAKER_12:So what you just said about blue and pink, I just unlocked this weird memory. So I am not a twin. I have a sister who's two years younger and I think my mom must have wanted twins because she definitely dressed us in identical outfits for a period when we were young and Now, my sister and I were, I guess we kind of were very close in size for a while. And so there's a lot of pictures of us in like matching outfits looking very similar. And I was always dressed in pink and my sister was always dressed in blue. And the funny thing is that I hated pink and my sister hated blue.
SPEAKER_03:Sure, Jessica.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah. We had this whole like, why can't I wear that, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:Jessica and Elizabeth have their own friend circles and interests. And it's not too judgy. It's not like, oh, Elizabeth's got the like lame friends or anything. Her friends are very nice.
SPEAKER_11:To the reader, Jessica thinks.
SPEAKER_10:Jessica judges. But like Elizabeth seems like she has a happier life in many ways than Jessica. I did at least appreciate that it wasn't quite so like. as some of the twin media has, where it's like, this is the loser twin and this is the cool twin. I don't think Elizabeth's presented as a loser. I mean, they even give her the big man on campus boyfriend in the first book. She's a cheerleader.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah. Well, Jessica's
SPEAKER_10:a
SPEAKER_12:cheerleader. No, they say Elizabeth is a cheerleader
SPEAKER_03:too. Elizabeth eventually
SPEAKER_12:becomes a cheerleader. Oh. Yeah. I missed that. According to what I read, unless that was... No, that's probably
SPEAKER_11:true. One plot point. And was trying to get into a sorority that she did not care about. She didn't even want to do it. She only did it because
SPEAKER_10:Jessica made
SPEAKER_11:her.
SPEAKER_03:And then she wasn't going to go up until they called Jessica's name, which I thought was really sweet. And you know, Jessica would not have done it if it was. Oh, no. Jessica would have ran. Even if it was that Elizabeth really wanted to be a part of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:The sorority thing was so weird. Yeah. That's not a thing, I don't think. Because they have like Rush and everything like. Go do all of these pranks on people. It's very weird. Yeah, the sorority thing really threw me. I didn't remember that at all. You've seen the movie. You've read the books. You've watched the entire TV series and achieved every ending in the video game. Now it's time to play the board game.
SPEAKER_11:Except we haven't done any of these things. We haven't done anything at all. Except read two books. It's time
SPEAKER_04:to play the game.
SPEAKER_12:It's time to play the game. Even if it is not your boyfriend, take it and place it face down on the boyfriend space on your scorecard. Oh, you're
SPEAKER_10:stealing a boyfriend.
SPEAKER_12:If it's empty. Yeah. Your turn is over. You're just trying to find
SPEAKER_11:a date. Just a guy.
SPEAKER_12:Any guy. You can never have more than one boyfriend on your scorecard. If you turn over a boyfriend, but you already have a boyfriend, you may exchange them if you wish. Okay. empty rooms. If there's no longer... Even if there's no longer an item card in the classroom, your turn's over. Okay.
SPEAKER_10:Well, let's go for it. We'll see what happens. I guess I'm doing the random number generator for everybody's
SPEAKER_03:turn. Okay, but these are like 3, 5, and 10.
SPEAKER_12:If you land by exact count in one of the special spaces, do the following. Trade places space. Landing on the space means you must trade places with any other player. After you trade places in all the directions, your turn's over. Change boyfriend space. Landing on the space means you must trade boyfriends, even if you don't want to, with any other player. Note, if you don't have a boyfriend, you can steal one from any player that has one and keep it. Play a card or home space. Landing on the space means you must play a card, draw one from the large card deck, read it aloud, and follow the directions. After you play the card, place it in the discard pile and your turn is over. Each card refers to a different character and tells a short story about her. The player whose character is mentioned on the card is the player who performs one of the card actions.
SPEAKER_11:Why are you looking at that wheel, Emily?
SPEAKER_10:Because we need to have a sleepover to play this one. Oh. It has great things like call a boy in your class and tell him he's cute. Sing your favorite song to a stuffed animal. Eat a ketchup sandwich. Crawl under the kitchen table carrying a lemon on a spoon. Read a page from your diary. Is that related to this? I think this is maybe like a bonus thing you can do for fun.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Hold on to that. I feel like there's definitely more Sweet Valley High episodes in our future.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, I can't wait to do this some other time. Anytime, really. Anytime. Do I go first? Yes, the
SPEAKER_12:player who's Jessica goes first. Play continues to the left.
SPEAKER_10:Boop. Five. I get boyfriend. I stole your boyfriend, Lila. Okay. Your turn is over. Over. Well, I mean, that was a success. All right. Are you next, Hannah? Yes. I
SPEAKER_11:mean, do we know anything about Ken Matthews?
SPEAKER_10:Not yet. All
SPEAKER_11:right. Sorry. Who goes next?
SPEAKER_10:Hannah. And she gets a four. You skipped a spot.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's the glasses.
SPEAKER_10:Hannah should have been Jessica. I'm going to be cheating. Oh, man. So if she has no one, we can't swap, right? We can't. Let me see what it says. Or can she just steal mine?
SPEAKER_12:You land on the change boyfriend space? I could. Landing on this note, if you don't have a boyfriend, you can steal one from
SPEAKER_11:any player in this wedding. Keep it. Steal my own boyfriend. Whatever. I
SPEAKER_10:didn't like Ken anyways. Bruce is better looking.
SPEAKER_11:Oh, Jessica at some point ends up with Bruce. That makes so much sense.
SPEAKER_10:Elizabeth's still with Todd, so poor Jeff just got eliminated, I guess. Oh, you can steal that boyfriend.
SPEAKER_11:But do you want Ken? Why not?
SPEAKER_10:She does want Ken. I
SPEAKER_12:just need a man.
SPEAKER_11:A man is a man. We learned. Chilling my Olivia
SPEAKER_12:energy.
SPEAKER_10:Anyone with a beating heart. Bruce helps Jessica set up for the prom. Jessica may peek or take from any room on the board. Change boyfriend and she's going to steal it from Elizabeth. I don't know. Do I want
SPEAKER_12:Ken? Change boyfriend is all over this. Lila invites Jessica to spend a weekend on a yacht. Lila may roll the die and play out of turn.
SPEAKER_11:Jessica schemes to get the last ticket to a rock concert. Jessica may roll the die and play out of turn.
SPEAKER_12:Enid
SPEAKER_11:may take from any room on the board
SPEAKER_10:because she volunteers to help with the blood drive. Oh, that's a wholesome. You have to tell us so that we know.
SPEAKER_12:It's beachwear. Uh-oh. Oh, that's mine. I like how the boys are being treated like objects. Totally. For once. Beachwear, surfboard, boyfriend. Paula, you have a three.
SPEAKER_10:Give me your boyfriend.
SPEAKER_03:Are you going in the right way? Huh? Oh, yeah. No, you were going this way. I
SPEAKER_10:can go any way.
SPEAKER_03:But isn't the point to get back to... Oh, no, there's no point to get back anymore. There's no point. You're just
SPEAKER_10:trying to get yourself. She's like a queen of chessboard. She can move in any direction. That was authentic because she's totally trying to steal Elizabeth's boyfriend all the time. Have Ken. Man, Ken's really getting around. He's got stupid hair.
SPEAKER_04:Jessica
SPEAKER_11:is voted most popular at Sweet Valley High. Jessica may roll the die and play out of turn. A six. Principal's office.
SPEAKER_12:Ha! Welcome to detention,
SPEAKER_10:Enid. It's where I'm lying down dead because I don't have a
SPEAKER_12:stand.
SPEAKER_03:It's giving breakfast pub at this
SPEAKER_12:point. We're having a party in detention
SPEAKER_10:right now. Yeah. What'd you get? My corsage. To go with my hideously ugly prom gown. Yeah, why is it like... It looks like Scarlett O'Hara or something.
SPEAKER_12:It looks like something that Molly would imagine from American Girls. Yes. Like wearing an Angora sweater on top of it or something.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah.
SPEAKER_12:Remember her strange knitwear daydream?
SPEAKER_11:These have all been rigged. I'm just kidding. Enid sells the most raffle tickets for a junior class fundraiser. Enid may roll the die and play out of turn. All
SPEAKER_10:right. You are free from detention with a two. You can steal the boyfriend again. Everybody getting with Ken. I know, right?
SPEAKER_03:But one day we should get together and play the entire game.
SPEAKER_12:And watch an episode of the
SPEAKER_03:TV series. Right, we can have it in the background or something.
SPEAKER_10:I
SPEAKER_03:almost took the boyfriend super. It almost took me back there.
SPEAKER_10:Man, Penn is really... He can't think of his mind. No, every day a
SPEAKER_03:different girl. All right,
SPEAKER_10:last turn is Hawa with a two. Thank goodness. You're not in a... You're Elizabeth. I'm Elizabeth. And you can't get anywhere. Game over, man. It's game over.
SPEAKER_03:Boom.
SPEAKER_10:Tomatoes, tomatoes. That's okay. I think we tied with two each, Hawa.
SPEAKER_03:We
SPEAKER_10:did. Oh, my gosh. Wakefield twins forever.
SPEAKER_03:Twinsies.
SPEAKER_10:Yay. All right.
SPEAKER_03:Each episode, we ask whether our book passes the Bechdel test. The Bechdel test asks whether a work features two female characters who talk to each other about something that doesn't involve men or boys. So, I guess we can do them one by one. Do we feel like Double Love passes? I
SPEAKER_10:mean, if you count that they talk about wearing a shirt that belongs to the other one, it's... Jessica talks about how hideous she is. Yeah, I mean, maybe it just barely passes... But just barely.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Because, like, even when they're talking to each other about someone else, a lot of the times it's in relation to a boy. Yeah. And then what about teacher crush?
SPEAKER_10:I don't think that one does.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe with, like, the side plots, maybe? But not even that. Because I was going to say, if you think about Jessica and Lila talking about it, but it's, like, her dad dating that woman. Dating
SPEAKER_10:somebody. Maybe with the newspaper... When... Olivia and Elizabeth... But even then, it's like you didn't get your work done on time because you were stalking Stuart.
SPEAKER_02:Just platonic, Stuart.
SPEAKER_10:So, no, I don't think it does pass. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, I guess what's to be expected about a book called Teacher Crush, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:That's not why we're reading these books. Right. Feminism non-existent in these books, but... We thoroughly enjoyed it. Oh, I guess we should ask, would we recommend these books to anyone? Because we did not discuss that yet.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we haven't really been pulling up the, how did this hold up? And do you feel like these are great for waddles?
SPEAKER_10:I would 100% recommend these to teen girls with the caveat that these are so horrible, they're great.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah. I would say if you like to laugh at really bad fan fiction. Yeah. Yeah. That's your
SPEAKER_10:target
SPEAKER_12:demographic for this one. Because it, you know,
SPEAKER_10:that's definitely what it reminded me of. Yeah, they're a delight in all the wrong ways. So yes, I would recommend, but I would definitely recommend to like girls old enough to know that this is trash. I would not recommend to a nine-year-old who might think like, oh, this is how high school should be. Yes. And
SPEAKER_12:I think Francine Pascal is perfectly capable of writing well. She was doing something very deliberate here.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. I mean, if her goal was soap opera for teenagers, she nailed it. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:And a lot happened in these books.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Just the two that we've read. And so her and her team of writers, because clearly she had a team and it was said, which I suspected even before because you wrote hundreds of these books. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12:Well, yeah. Yeah. I think they said she wrote the first 12. And then it was like, I would love to know what the writer's room there was like. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11:Because she was still involved.
SPEAKER_12:Can you
SPEAKER_11:imagine?
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, just the roundtables where you're like planning stuff out. Like, should
SPEAKER_11:we have Todd come back? Yeah, yes. That sounds like a great idea.
SPEAKER_03:Do they have a
SPEAKER_10:whiteboard
SPEAKER_03:or chalkboard? This is not canon. Has anyone been in a car
SPEAKER_10:wreck that results in like an amputation? Let's
SPEAKER_04:do it!
SPEAKER_11:Well, that's it for this episode of These Books Made Me. Join us next time when we'll discuss a book with another love triangle with brothers. If you think you know which book we're tackling next, follow us on Instagram. We're at thesebooksmademe and drop a comment on our Guess Our Next Read post. done any of these things. We haven't done anything at all. Except read two books.
SPEAKER_12:We read two books. There's a video game? I don't think so. Oh, I... Yeah, I stole that copy from TV Tropes, which is a general trope for any intellectual property that has a board game. So... Now I wonder if anybody has made a Sweet Valley High video
SPEAKER_10:game. I feel like it would be very boring unless it was all like carjackings. Like Grand Theft Auto. That would be awesome if you're just Rick Andover plowing through Sweet Valley High. I
SPEAKER_11:wonder if there's a Nancy Drew board game.