These Books Made Me

The Baby-Sitters Club: Claudia Part 1

• Prince George's County Memorial Library System • Season 4 • Episode 6

Share episode

Send us a text

We are diving back into The Baby-Sitters Club and we've brought a special friend along for the ride. Kelsey proves to be the non-diabetic Stacey of the podcast because she goes away but she always comes back. While Kelsey might be Stacey, we kind of all wanted to be Claudia at some point with her junk food stash, illicit Nancy Drews, love of boys with soap opera names, and "New York" clothes. In this episode, we cover the first two Claudia installments of the BSC and debate whether Janine was really the "mean" one after all and are horribly disappointed in the resolution to The Phantom Phone Calls.  We're exploring IQ tests, spilled jello incidents, diabetes (again!), and the sad state of affairs at the Stoneybrook public library.

These Books Made Me is a podcast about the literary heroines who shaped us and is a product of the Prince George's County Memorial Library System podcast network. Stay in touch with us via Twitter @PGCMLS with #TheseBooksMadeMe or by email at TheseBooksMadeMe@pgcmls.info. For recommended readalikes and deep dives into topics related to each episode, visit our blog at https://pgcmls.medium.com/.

We mentioned a lot of topics in this episode. Here’s a brief list of some informative articles and videos about some of them if you want to do your own further research:

History of Diabetes: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317484#modern-treatment

Updating the Baby-sitters Club: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-baby-sitters-club-was-always-progressive-now-netflixs-version-is-empowering-a-new-generation/2020/06/30/6ec83810-b63d-11ea-aca5-ebb63d27e1ff_story.html

Hawa:

Hi, I am Hawa

Hannah:

I'm Hannah.

Darlene:

I'm Darlene.

Heather:

And I'm Heather.

Hawa:

And this is our podcast, These Books Made Me. Today we're going to be picking up our discussion of the Baby- Sitters Club series.

Clip:

Didn't make fun of me for basing it all on The Baby-Sitters Club.

Hawa:

The last time we covered the first two Kristy novels. This time we'll be focusing on Claudia and delving into Claudia and the Phantom Phone Calls, Claudia and Mean Janine and Claudia, and the Sad Goodbye. Friendly warning as always, this podcast contains spoilers. If you don't yet know who deposited red Jell-O into Trevor Sandbourne's lap, please proceed with caution. We have a extra super special returning guest with us today. < laugh > , can you introduce yourself?

Kelsey:

Hi everyone. I'm Kelsey and I'm back. I'm so excited.

Heather:

I like that we lure you back with Baby-Sitters every time. <laugh>

Hannah:

So our normal question, uh, slightly amended because we're covering three books today instead of one. What did these books mean to you? U m, was this everyone's first time reading them? If not, how did the rereads compare to your memories of reading them when you were younger?

Kelsey:

I mean, not my first time reading them. I brought my OG um , oil pastel cover copies today , um, from my shelf. I tried to actually read the physical copies and they crumbled into dust.

Darlene:

<laugh>. Yeah,

Kelsey:

They were very loved , um, growing up. So, but it was nice to specifically focus on Claudia and , um, Mimi's relationship, which I'm sure we'll talk about because I didn't realize , um, or I kind of forgot how much that relationship like, kind of was important and kind of formative to me and understanding family and, and things like that. So yeah, it's good to go back.

Heather:

Not my first time either. These books meant so much to me when I was a kid. Um, I think before Kelsey came in, I was telling Darlene I was sad 'cause I had to get new cover books and the Claudia and the Sad Goodbye cover is so like, nostalgic for me. Like I can picture it in perfect clarity. Um, and I just, that book was so impactful. Like it wrecked me when I was a kid < laugh > . And I feel like it also, it helped me really like understand kind of what was going on with my grandmother who had dementia. Um, and, you know, declined as I got older and older. And so by the time I was, you know, Claudia's age, certainly she was having a lot of issues similar to Mimi. Um, and then I was doing some caregiving for her when I was in college. And I think it really shaped how I was able to understand that and gave a model for, you know, what a relationship with someone you love can look like, even if they're having mental changes due to their age or a disease or something like that. So these books were really important and I loved revisiting them. I, I still think they're really fun , um, though there's some weird stuff in these that we'll talk about.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Heather:

But I think they were really fun to, to reread.

Hawa:

So y'all know me, I'm always like, yeah, this is my first time. Like I'm, I remember the Baby-Sitters Club books being around when I was a kid. I may or may not have picked them up. I can't remember to be honest. So we gonna say this was my first time reading them. Um , but honestly, I kind of wish I had read these as a child because like my grandmother lived with my family. Like, she came to America, like when me and my sister were like nine months old, so she'd always been in my house. So I feel like Claudia's stories specifically are ones that I really would've related to.

Darlene:

I don't know it's my first time reading these 'cause I , um, I'm not new to the Baby-Sitters Club series, but I would read them like just randomly not in order. And even then it wasn't quite that many 'cause I think when I was younger I didn't care for them because they were too realistic. I don't know. As a child I really liked more like scarier like mystery, which is not, well, I mean, I guess I still really read cozy mysteries, but < laugh > . Um , but like, yeah, I usually didn't go for the like really realistic books 'cause I felt like they were too much like real life and it didn't feel fun to read. Um, but it was so nice to kind of revisit these. Um , and I think I might try to read a few more , um, in this series now.

Hannah:

I never encountered these books. I read a lot of things growing up. I don't know why these never crossed my path. I tended to read, I guess, a lot of genre things. Science fiction, fantasy.

Darlene:

Mm - Hmm,

Hannah:

Um, and then my mom shoved a lot of classics at me. U m, so for whatever reason I did not encounter these.

Kelsey:

All right, well let's refresh ourselves on our beloved author Ann M . Martin. Ann Matthews Martin was born in 1955 in Princeton, New Jersey. Her mother Edith taught preschool while her father worked as an illustrator and cartoonist for several prominent magazines. Martin credits her babysitting exploits with her childhood best friend Beth for the ideas and characters in the Baby-Sitters Club. In her letters to young readers on Scholastic's website, she states Beth was the model for Kristy while she was the model for Mary Anne, as she was a shy, quiet, and conscientious girl. She was encouraged to write by an elementary school teacher, but initially decided to pursue work as a teacher due to her love of children. She attended Smith College studying education and child psychology, graduating in 1977. Martin credits her time in the all women environment of Smith for her formative years as a feminist. Her first job post grad was at an elementary school in Connecticut teaching a mixed fourth and fifth grade special education class. She only spent one year in the classroom before shifting to the children's publishing world, finding work as an editor. While working for Scholastic, another editor, Jean Feiwel floated the idea for a series of children's books about babysitting. Martin took the idea and ran with it. And the Baby-Sitters Club series was born. Martin penned the first 35 books of the series before Scholastic turned it over to ghost writers. She's primarily focused on one-off novels since then, winning a Newbery Honor for her book, A Corner of the Universe in 2002. Martin has stayed busy outside of writing as well. Founding the Lisa Libraries in 1990, an organization that provides children's books and support to libraries in underserved communities. She also created an eponymous foundation that same year, which focuses on literacy and arts programs and the care of stray and abused animals. That's a lot of goals.

Multiple voices:

<laugh>.

Kelsey:

In 2000, the Baby-Sitters Club series ended with some 300 titles and almost 200 million copies in print. That same year, she teamed up with Canadian author Laura Godwin and illustrator Brian Selznick to write the four book Doll People series. Godwin was also Martin's longtime partner at the time. They wrote the Doll People series, though they have since split. Martin, a self-avowed shy person maintains a quiet private life with her many pets. She has multiple dogs and has fostered hundreds of kittens. And she currently resides in Shokan, a small town near Woodstock in New York. She recently wore a different hat as a producer for Netflix on their Baby-Sitters Club series.

Heather:

The first book we're tackling today is Claudia and the Phantom Phone Calls. Claudia Kishi is a 13-year-old girl living with her mother, father, sister Janine, and grandmother Mimi in Connecticut. Claudia is artistic, stylish, quirky, and very into boys, Nancy Drew, junk food and babysitting. Stoneybrook is all atwitter over nearby mansions being robbed by a phantom caller who calls and hangs up repeatedly before robbing a house. As the girls in the Baby-Sitters Club devise code words and plans to keep themselves safe from the phantom caller, normal life in Stoneybrook continues apace. Mimi makes special tea from Japan and supports Claudia as she struggles with homework. Claudia is dyslexic and possibly also has ADHD. And her struggles with school are an ongoing motif in her books. The girls care a lot, in Claudia and Stacey's case, or very little in Kristy and Maryanne's case about an upcoming school dance and Claudia pines for Trevor Sandbourne, a classmate with a soap opera name. Kristy struggles with daily harassment by classmate Alan Gray. Things take a turn when the girls start receiving terrifying hangup calls while babysitting. The emergency codes are deployed and Kristy and Claudia end up calling police after receiving multiple hangup calls and hearing a prowler outside the window. It turns out that the calls weren't the phantom caller at all. They were just Alan and Trevor being total weirdos while attempting to ask Claudia and Kristy to the school dance. Can we start with them being total weirdos? <laugh>. This is my big issue with this book.

Kelsey:

Yeah. I really did not like that. That that was the like, moral of the story is like, oh, boys just bother girls and are weird when they like them. And that's normal.

Heather:

Yeah. It it feels very, I mean, fine it, the book was written in the eighties and I, that was certainly the messaging that I got a lot when I was a kid. It's like, oh, he's pulling your hair 'cause he likes you. He is popping your bra strap because he likes you. Boys are ****heads when they like girls < laugh > and you just need to take it as a compliment. I don't love that take home.

Kelsey:

And I don't feel like that's in like Kristy's, like.

Heather:

No.

Kelsey:

Dynamic at all for her to be like, oh, I guess he just likes me and I'm totally fine with him being a jerk to me and I'm just gonna forget about it instantly.

Multiple voices:

Yeah. It's Not even At all. Yeah. My spot. Like, wow,

Heather:

Now that you mention it, I would like to go to the dance with you. No, he was creepy.

Darlene:

Yeah.

Heather:

She would've punched him in the nose.

Kelsey:

He was her rival for like 15 years.

Heather:

Yeah. He'd been bothering her < laugh > constantly. He was getting into her things that is creepy stalker behavior.

Hawa:

And wasn't she like not at all interested in boys.

Heather:

No

Hawa:

and then all of a sudden like, oh,

Darlene:

She's like, fine with it.

Hawa:

I s t hat like her version of a grand gesture? She thought like, oh, it's so romantic. Maybe. I don't k now. T hat's.

Heather:

He went to all this trouble and nearly got arrested to ask me out.

Hawa:

Well, also made me feel like crap.

Darlene:

Yeah. Is there any indication in the Kristy books that she does like, like boys and like.

Kelsey:

no.

Darlene:

likes their attention? Or like, 'cause I, the only thing is like, I thought about maybe Claudia just has this perception of Kristy, but that's not really all of what Kris,- you know, all of who Kristy is. So I thought about that because obviously I'm not well versed in Babysitter's club. Um, but the way that Claudia sees Kristy, I didn't think that her reaction at the end made sense.

Heather:

No. Well, and I don't think Kristy sees herself in that way either, because in the Kristy books it's pretty clearly established that like, ugh, Claudia and Stacey are really into boys and Maryanne and I are just like, no <laugh>.

Hawa:

Um ,

Kelsey:

And I think it's typical. I, I like wouldn't be surprised if she like started dating someone. Like, that's not the issue. The issue is like, particularly Alan .

Darlene:

Mm - hmm.

Kelsey:

and particularly putting up, up with the bullying that I feel like she wouldn't, it, it is not like her to to pivot in that way.

Heather:

And it shouldn't be like anybody. This kid was stalking her. Like it is described in the book that he is getting into her desk on a daily basis to see where her jobs are. Then gets the phone numbers for those jobs, writes 'em all down, takes 'em home, passes some to Trevor if it's Claudia's job, and then just starts harassing her to the degree that he shows up at her work.

Kelsey:

And here's the, like,

Heather:

If this was an adult man.

Hawa:

Adult, yeah

Heather:

He would be arrested.

Kelsey:

Bizarre. Also, I, I really don't understand why he has to call them at their babysitting gigs and not just at their house. Like, right. I guess I can sort of see it for Kristy because she doesn't have her own phone line, but Claudia has her own phone, so there is no reason he has to be worried that anyone else is gonna pick up when he is calling her directly and she puts her phone around everything

HeatherKelsey:

Everyone in the town has Claudia's phone number.

Hawa:

Five, Five, five...

Kelsey:

Yeah. There's just a lot of holes in the plot I feel like.

Heather:

Oh, it was a little rough. Yeah. Um ,

Darlene:

And he knows the backs- like he knows what they're scared about. Right,

Heather:

Right!

Darlene:

Because everyone at the school is scared.

Heather:

Everyone's aware.

Darlene:

Yeah.

Heather:

That this robber has been traumatizing the like nearby villages and stuff. And it's, it's a really weird take on how Kristy would react to that. I think

Kelsey:

It's also just like a really strong pivot to be like, okay, book one, establish the Baby-Sitters club, book 2 mystery. Like we haven't even really created a formula, formula yet, but we're gonna scare the crap outta these kids < laugh > .

Heather:

Yeah. I mean, honestly I liked the mystery in this one. Yeah. I thought it was a great hook. I liked seeing the girls try to come up with like, ways to keep each other safe.

Darlene:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

I thought there was a lot of powerful.

Hawa:

Their little booby traps.

Clip:

Oh, it's dangerous to keep weapons in the home. Well, I say it's better to be hurt by someone, you know, accidentally than by a stranger on purpose. < laugh >.

Kelsey:

Creative

Darlene:

Yeah. And there was a nice nod to Nancy Drew

Heather:

Yes, it totally was. Which Claudia loves Nancy Drew, which we need to talk about.

Hawa:

We need to have Claudia on the podcast.

Heather:

Claudia come talk about Nancy Drew with us. But I just

Hannah:

Her mom won't approve.

Heather:

Yeah. The wheels really came off at the end for me. Like that was, that was not cool. And I kind of felt like for this being Claudia's book, it wasn't so much Claudia's book at the end.

Hawa:

Yeah.

Heather:

Really. Kristy was the like, hinge that the critical actions.

Hawa:

Yeah.

Darlene:

Right.

Heather:

Swung on.

Darlene:

Mm-Hmm.

Heather:

But I did, I did like the, the establishment of Claudia's family dynamic. You got a real sense. I think her relationship with Janine is a very

Darlene:

Fraught < laugh >.

Heather:

relatable for a lot of siblings. Like the fighting and the, you know, each feeling like they're in the other shadow. Just how they like drew her relationship with Mimi is really important for the later books so that we care about the things that are happening to Mimi. You know, and she has that beautiful like, supportive relationship where Mimi takes Claudia as she is. She knows that like she's stressed by kind of the pressure the parents are putting on her. So she's a little bit gentler with like, how she helps her with her homework. And just having that kind of person in your life is really important. But boy, the end. I was so disappointed in that because I feel like in so many ways these books are really progressive.

Darlene:

Do we feel like part of not the punishment necessarily? Well I guess the punishment was the like police involvement and like him being like just super scared by the cops.

Heather:

He was,

Darlene:

He was very like.

Heather:

Yeah.

Darlene:

Anxious.

Heather:

Like he was described as being kind of freaked out by it, which he should be. You know, the cops are trying to scare him straight.

Darlene:

Right.

Heather:

Like, I think, but it's just,

Kelsey:

I feel like , um, at the end of this book, at least the, the one I have, there's a letter from Ann Martin, like all the original ones. There's a letter at the end.

Darlene:

Mm-Hmm.

Kelsey:

And she talks about how like it was inspired by the fact that, like she would be terrified most of the time when she was babysitting.

Darlene:

Yeah. That's real

Speaker 4:

< laugh > . And I feel like it, well yeah, first of all it's super relatable. I definitely would've been the same way. 'cause I was a huge , uh, scaredy cat and I feel like this book terrified me with < laugh > . But I think also like, it really underscored for me, like the thing that's always been weird to me reading these as an adult is like how young I think they the babysitters are and like how, like I know that they seem to do a good job generally, but then sometimes they may decisions and I'm like, like Stacey wanting to watch MTV with her.

Multiple voices:

[ Unintelligible] <laugh>

Heather:

And then the kid like says like, I don't think I'm allowed to watch that

Multiple voices:

< laugh > .

Kelsey:

He's like, my mom blocks channels. I'm not allowed to

Darlene:

< laugh >

Kelsey:

What's MTV? And then, and Stacey's like, luckily I'm a good babysitter. <laugh>,

Hannah:

They seemed way too excited to be babysitting as much as they did, frankly.

Darlene:

That's true. Yeah. That didn't, I mean, they get money out of it.

Hannah:

Sure.

Heather:

I loved babysitting when I was that age, when it was paid. Yeah. It's different when it's your own family

Darlene:

No. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say like with Kelsey , um, same thing. It did remind me of just like how easily scared I was and the fact that I don't think I had < laugh > , I don't think I had the maturity , um, to really be making decisions on behalf of me and my sisters at like 12 when I would take care of them. I mean, it was only for like a few hours after school, but still.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Darlene:

So I can't imagine how, because for them it's like, and it's evening too.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Heather:

Yeah. Though they are doing very short. Like, that became clear in the later books when I was like, we're going to a cocktail party. We'll be back in two hours. < laugh >

Hannah:

No one goes to a cocktail party for two hours

Heather:

And it's six. That's like, that's very odd.

Hannah:

That's not how cocktail parties work.

Heather:

Yeah. So like I think they are doing sort of a middle ground babysitting where it's, you know, it's short bursts. It's not, you know, they're not staying until one in the morning or something with kids.

Hannah:

Yeah. Um , That was never my babysitting experience,

Kelsey:

although that's easier because usually by then they're asleep. So you're literally just sitting there making sure nothing goes wrong.

Heather:

But adults, like kids always think all the bad stuff happens at night.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Darlene:

Yeah

Heather:

You know, it's like after it's dark is when it gets scary.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Heather:

I did think like, it was kind of nostalgic for me. They were getting so like spun up over the news about the phantom caller and everything. And I think that was a really like realistically drawn , uh, version of what happens when you're a kid and you hear or see snippets of news and then you just, your mind runs away with it.

Darlene:

Feel like it's here.

Heather:

Exactly.

Kelsey:

I feel like it also speaks like that time where like every, everyone's kind of reading the same thing and knows about the same news. Like now there's so many different things happening. We all kind of have different, like you still hyper-focus on something, but it's all different. Everyone in that town knew about and was worried about the phantom caller

Heather:

Right. 'cause you would have your one newspaper.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Heather:

Or your one, you know, local station that you watched all the time. And it would be the same one that like your grandparents watched and your neighbors watched. And you know, they even say in the book at one point like, well no, they're robbing mansions. They're probably not gonna like rob this random house in StonyBrook.

Hannah:

It's not gonna be worth t heir while.

Heather:

But it's not enough to combat the like, oh gosh, we need code words. We need to

Hannah:

The imagination of a kid who's [unintelligible] you know, a story.

Heather:

Exactly

Darlene:

Oh they're mansion adjacent. 'cause.

Heather:

Watson.

Kelsey:

Watson That's true,

Heather:

But not yet.

Darlene:

Yeah, That's true. That's true.

Kelsey:

I don't know if this was in the newer version or just in the older version, but in my version they read the other headlines that were in the, the newspaper and one of them was Depressed Trucker Drives Self Crazy < laugh > .

Heather:

I think that's just in your version

Hawa:

What? What does that even? What Does that even mean?

Kelsey:

Why is that news That's really dark. Why did we have to put that in the book? < laugh > ? That's really vague.

Heather:

Oh my gosh. Do you remember where it was? Now I wanna check.

Kelsey:

I don't know. < laugh > , they didn't really talk about it other than they just touch on the headline.

Hawa:

Now I'm gonna search 'depressed trucker' and see if it comes up. Because what, I totally skipped over that.

Heather:

I will say it also reminded me of our weird emergency like language here when they were like, do you have my red ribbon? I was thinking about < laugh > , like how we used to be like , uh, can Dr. Lockett come to periodicals please < laugh > .

Darlene:

Yes.

Hannah:

To be honest, I feel like we have a similar success rate with using it.

Kelsey:

< laugh > . Okay. I found it, on my, in my book. It's on page 21. Um, they're reading the newspaper. Kristy shocked, Angry Pig goes Hog Wild.

Heather:

Yup.

Kelsey:

Then first Headline then Depressed Trucker Drives Self Crazy.

Hannah:

Oh, these, these must be local papers. < laugh > , Like really local papers.

Heather:

No, it's the same in my version. So they did not, um, tone that down for strange. Yeah, that's really strange.

Kelsey:

It's a full news day otherwise <laugh >

Hawa:

Depressed Trucker Drives Self crazy. That's kind of funny.

Multiple voices:

[Unintelligible]

Heather:

Also like why is that news

Kelsey:

This poor man or woman.

Heather:

Leave him alone. He's having a hard time.

Kelsey:

Going through something.

Heather:

Um, I, I did wanna like return back to the Alan thing because it's, it directly, like Kristy is saying that Alan finally proved something my mother's been telling me for years. That some boys pick really stupid ways to show they like you. That's not a good lesson < laugh > .

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Heather:

I mean, is it true? Yes. But the, the take h ome should not be reward that bad behavior by now.

Darlene:

Right.

Heather:

Being into that guy, I, I just find that hard to stomach.

Kelsey:

Yeah. And I feel like as a feminist, or at least especially in that time, that wouldn't be in Martin's takeaway either.

Hannah:

I was reading about , uh, that book and uh, I stumbled upon some discussion about how in the 2020 Netflix series when they portrayed that they changed how the boys, you know, tried to get their attention because it would read so poorly to a modern audience.

Heather:

Yeah. 'cause it's horrifying. I mean it's like straight up stalker behavior.

Hawa:

Is that something that you all would've been flattered by in seventh grade? Because I

Heather:

No!

Darlene:

I would've been been so upset

Heather:

I would've been furious.

Hawa:

And some people they like, you know, they like their, you know, their, their interests to be mean. I don't like mean people. I like nice and sweet people < laugh > . Even as a kid, I would not have thought that was cute. I thought it was, would've thought it was weird. Like, get him away from me. I don't wanna see you not. I'm gonna go to the dance with you and make that decision on the spot

Heather:

Exactly. Yeah.

Kelsey:

Yeah. I feel like, I feel like maybe if I was Claudia and like with Trevor Sandbourne and I already had a crush on him, then I maybe would've-

Heather:

Right, 'cause you're looking for

Kelsey:

-had bad judgment to look past it. But like with Alan , Kristy is like, he's gross. I hate him. Okay, I'll go to the dance Like that just a weird pivot.

Hannah:

Yeah, it seemed like poor character, characterization.

Darlene:

Yeah.

Hannah:

Uh , with Claudia it made sense. Uh , and the red Jell-O apparently worked < laugh > .

Heather:

Yeah. That was.

Hannah:

sort of.

Heather:

that's such a weird trope, like spilling stuff on people in the school cafeteria. I don't remember ever dropping my entire tray on anyone, but I feel like it happens in every school cafeteria setting in books and shows and movies at least once

Darlene:

Yes.

Hannah:

Like, you know how whenever there's an action movie, somebody has to hang from one hand from like a cliff. Which every time I was like, every time that happens now I just get mad. I'm like, it's so overused. I just, I just, I'm like, stop it. I hate that you're doing this. So maybe that's the school equivalent

Darlene:

I think of that Spider-Man scene where like she slips and then he like catches everything on the tray. < laugh > .

Kelsey:

I think the other thing that stood well, oh I was gonna say too, like just pivoting back a little bit to them being like still need, having some maturing to do. The other babysitting moment that made me laugh is when Kristy told them one false move and I'll punch her lights out. <laugh> < laugh > . That was her babysitting approach.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kelsey:

I was like, I mean I guess I can see she did grow up in a rowdy household so I could see how that would work. But like you gotta change your approach when you're with other people's kids. < laugh >

Darlene:

And she's the professional one too. That's what's so funny about it.

Kelsey:

But I think the other thing that really stuck out for me through this is like the constant mentions of what Stacey, can and can't eat.

Darlene:

Oh my god.

Kelsey:

weird.

Darlene:

Yeah.

Kelsey:

That and I feel like there's a fundamental lack of understanding about how diabetes actually works. Which kind of baffles me because I remember, and I know we haven't done the Stacey series yet, so maybe I'm just misremembering, but I remember the Stacey book when they like learn about her arc being very scientific and like really like, oh these are all her symptoms. And like really seeing like someone did their research so then for it to just be like, oh yeah, Stacey can't eat anything and it kind of sucks to be her and we can't do anything fun when she's around 'cause she can't eat fun food.

Darlene:

Yeah.

Kelsey:

Like it was like really icky < laugh > .

Darlene:

I Know. It was like dang. And like it was so funny 'cause I like highlighted it on my eBook. But um, I think it's in the Mimi and the Sad Goodbye. There's like a point where like, or there's a part where Claudia says , um, like, Stacey has diabetes.

Clip:

Diabetes.

Darlene:

Isn't it such a drag

Speaker 3:

Man, what a drag?

Hawa:

< laugh > . I highlighted that part because I was like, what?

Hannah:

Why are they so weird about it?

Clip:

Diabetes. Diabetes.

Heather:

Yeah

Darlene:

I mean, she is Why is everyone in this universe so weird about it?

Heather:

Stacey's family is deeply weird about it because at least in the Kristy episode we discovered that Stacey's family relocated from New York because she was being bullied about her diabetes so badly.

Hawa:

Didn't she go back?

Kelsey:

Yeah. Then she went back.

Heather:

She totally did go back.

Hannah:

I was reading about like, I was, I sort of was reading, I went onto the wiki and I was reading plot because I was trying to figure out where in this series we were. 'cause again, new to this series trying to orient myself the description. Then I read, I read one of the descriptions of one of the Stacey books and apparently like her parents were looking for a cure for type one diabetes, which is not a thing. And I was like, wait, what sort of magical thinking is this?

Heather:

So they did frame it that way back in the day. Like yeah, I feel like there were so many. Was it the juvenile diabetes association? Like you would see the little like , um, to leave your change.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Heather:

Or something. the little boxes at like a library or a store or something. And I think they had ads too. And it was always framed in this like, almost like it was cancer or something. Like.

Darlene:

Yeah.

Heather:

Help us.

Hawa:

Wasn't Nick Jonas.

Multiple voices:

Unintelligible.

Darlene:

Nick Jonas? I'm never like, I literally thought he was gonna die. <Laugh>.

Hannah:

But donating towards the idea of finding a cure and like funding it is different than going, I'm taking my daughter and I, granted, I read the summary, I didn't read the book. I'm taking my daughter from specialists to specialist in hope that one of them has a secret cure that oh, they're hiding from the rest of the medical world. Like, what is that?

Heather:

But people do that weird stuff. I mean like, it's like the Ivermectin people with. It's like they're just looking for someone to give them something to like hold onto and her parents are so weird that they relocated states out of embarrassment about her diabetes. I can buy it. That they would be like looking for some snake oil salesman. You.

Hannah:

It's just bananas

Kelsey:

You know what's so weird too is like in the, I forget, I guess , um, the Sad Goodbye they say that Stacey's dad's job moved him and

Heather:

Right. Which is not what the other book said

Kelsey:

But then they say that he moved back. Yes. So it's like, what is it, Ann?

Hawa:

So what is the truth? < laugh >.

Kelsey:

Whatcha hiding from us, Ann? .

Heather:

But then like, I wonder if that 'cause I don't remember the Stacey books as well because she was not my favorite. So ...because I hate people with diabetes <laugh>. I'm a bully too.

Kelsey:

We're gonna cut that out.

Multiple voices:

[Laughter] [Unintelligible]

Hannah:

We are going to get all the email now.

Heather:

Finally someone will...

Kelsey:

[ Unintelligible]

Heather:

Message us...[unintelligible] But like, I, I wonder though, I think Ann M.Martin is playing like 4D chess here because, because that's the sort of thing she does mention. I think that there're separated.

Kelsey:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

And she's really hung up on divorce and separations.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Heather:

And, and sort of non-traditional for the eighties families, which I think is great. Yeah. Um, but you know, I wonder if that's one of those things where like Stacey has internalized it as we had to move because I'm sick.

Kelsey:

Ohhh.

Heather:

But like, really the move was more about like, okay, we're trying to make things work as a family and a couple and she just didn't quite understand what was going on with her parents. And then they split. But she's still on the like, well we had to move 'cause I'm sick wavelength. And really maybe that wasn't why they moved. Like.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Heather:

I mean I think that that's where kids get little snippets of like, oh, there's a little truth in this, but these are things that the grownups are deciding and talking about. And so maybe they're not completely accurate or clear on why things are happening. U m, though.

Darlene:

Yeah.

Heather:

that actually kind of flies in the face of like, when Darlene and I were talking before everyone was here, she was like, these books really like have to explain everything to you. Like they wanna tell you every little thing.

Darlene:

Yeah

Heather:

But we had said in the Kristy one, they leave a lot of things unexplained.

Darlene:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

They just kind of dangle some things there and like stuff like that. I think maybe that is the sort of thing that happens with kids. It's like, I have this much information on a, this big issue, but my, my brain's gonna fill in the rest.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Heather:

And everyone just runs with it.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Hannah:

I'm, I'm worried about , um, the health of the cat. Booboo

Hawa:

< laugh > .

Hannah:

They should not be letting him out all the time.

Kelsey:

I feel like that was another like very eighties, early nineties thing is like everyone's animal just like off

Heather:

Free range. < laugh >.

Hawa:

Morbidda Destiny was like, yo, if you don't come get this cat < laugh > . Yeah.

Hannah:

He had a sudden dramatic weight change. He needs to go to the vet.

Kelsey:

That's true. Yeah. I really want a Morbidda Destiny spinoff.

Heather:

Oh, me too. Speaking about the diabetes again, can we talk about Claudia's junk food issues? I feel like her room would have bugs. Is she hiding like half-opened bags of Cheetos, gum drops.

Hannah:

Cheetos.

Darlene:

Oreos

Hannah:

Or she's really good with like Ziplocs and seals it, you know, I just, every single time

Heather:

I don't either. 'cause she's hiding it. Like where is- she put one in a false cover book. Which, where did she get this? She has a hollowed out book. She's hiding

Hannah:

You can make those.

Heather:

Nancy Drew and food.

Hannah:

You can make those. You just, you get a big book.

Heather:

Maybe she did. 'cause she's artsy

Hannah:

You just need glue, get an Xa..cto Knife, it would take some work .

Kelsey:

That would be the kind of things she would do.

Hannah:

You can create them.

Hawa:

the dedication to...laugh>

Speaker 3:

That's- to Nancy Drew and junk.

Speaker 4:

I was wondering about her budget. Like she must get like a lot of babysitting gigs. 'cause I feel like she's ho them That's a lot of food and a lot of books that she paying for.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Like,

Speaker 1:

You know, that was a whole thing. Christie was like, I think, was it Christie ? She was like, are you keeping these calls to yourself? And she's like, no, I only did it like once. And and

Speaker 4:

She's like , or twice . Oh yeah . Or twice . She was like , what about this family? This family, this family.

Speaker 3:

I love it when they fight. Like , it's so realistic. It's exactly the kind of thing you would argue about if you had a business with your friend .

Speaker 4:

Like , I do feel like I , I I feel like Claudia doesn't like Christie very <laugh> .

Speaker 3:

No, she really doesn't. That's she's very shady about Christie . You know, Christie , she likes to be in charge. She put her visor on, like, that means something <laugh> . And she'll

Speaker 5:

Say like , she'll be like, oh yeah. Like, 'cause there's this one where like , um, she is insulting Janine, but like Christie catches a stray because she is like, she's like, Janine does not care about what she looks like. She's a lot like Christie in that sense. <laugh> . I was like , what ?

Speaker 3:

Then she also talks about like, I get Janine's hand-me-downs. Like I'd wear those. I just give them to Christie

Speaker 4:

Anne . They're so babyish. She says that a

Speaker 5:

Lot. Yeah .

Speaker 2:

She's like , they're like truly in a workplace because they're like coworkers who can't like stand each other.

Speaker 5:

<laugh> . Yeah . Like she

Speaker 2:

To be civil .

Speaker 5:

Yeah. She can't stand that. Like, Christie likes to just wear jeans and like a normal top. Like, it's like it's insulting to her. Christie

Speaker 2:

Was giving a hard time about like her, well I thought I accidentally, I read the first book by mistake when I was trying to read. I , so I read , uh, uh, Christie's

Speaker 3:

Big idea. Yeah . Yes . That word . Good idea. Great idea. <laugh> Big day.

Speaker 2:

And I even did your suggested reading of Christie's Big day. And like Christy was like making fun of her day glow makeup or whatever that Claudia put on. She's like , um, she's like, what happened to your face? Basically <laugh> .

Speaker 4:

Yeah. They're all kind of catty to each other behind

Speaker 3:

They're, that's what you forget .

Speaker 4:

Which is kind of realistic. Honestly.

Speaker 3:

I think so too. So the second book we looked at was Claudia and Mean. Janine. Claudia and her 196 iq Genius of a sister. Janine cannot get along or as Janine would say, they have a failure to communicate. The girls couldn't be less alike. Janine is studious, responsible really into computers and kind of socially inept. Claudia's a social butterfly who hates school and quietly rebels against her parents' restrictions on junk food and reading material. Claudia spends a ton of time with her loving but declining grandmother meanie while Janine spends a lot of time in her room and taking college classes for fun . The Babysitter's Club plans a mini summer camp for local kids, but Claudia has to bow out when Mimi has a massive stroke. Claudia's summer of fun turns into a summer of nursing duties as she becomes the primary caregiver for Mimi during the day. Mimi has to relearn to speak right and cook and their usual roles are reversed. As Claudia drills Mimi on vocabulary and handwriting and picks up the slack in cooking and caring for the family. Janine grows more and more distant until everything comes to a head. And the two feuding sisters realize they both admire and are somewhat jealous of the other. Claudia resents Janine's bookish hiding away from the family and is tired of always failing at school. In comparison to Janine, Janine Envy's, Claudia's friendships and her close relationship with Mimi. Ultimately the girls begin to see each other more clearly and commit to communicating better and working together to get through the summer. Caring for Mimi. How do we feel about mean , Janine ? First

Speaker 1:

Of all, I feel like Claudia was the mean one. Agreed. Yeah .

Speaker 10:

<laugh>

Speaker 1:

Like mean. Janine just rhymes. But Claudia is the mean one like <laugh> . Absolutely.

Speaker 4:

We only hear Claudia's perspective though.

Speaker 5:

That's fair .

Speaker 3:

Yeah . But she paints herself as

Speaker 1:

The mean , the mean one.

Speaker 3:

I feel like she's just like constantly sniping at her. And I mean, that goes back to even like Christy catching the stray in the other book. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Claudia has no filter. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Page three. Literally Janine wears clothes that are blah, blah, blah. When she outgrows them and passes them along to me, I pass them right along to Christy Thomas or Maryanne Spire who live across the street. They don't care too much about clothes, but I wouldn't be caught dead in Janine's things. <laugh> . And then she also says, I've already had two semi boyfriends. Janine quite possibly doesn't know what boys are. <laugh>. <laugh> .

Speaker 5:

Oh my God. I feel

Speaker 4:

Like though, like the thing, I , I actually noticed this first in book two, but this was carried through and this is like, Janine just like struck me as like if um actually was just an entire personality <laugh>.

Speaker 10:

Yes . And that's

Speaker 4:

Annoying. Like I'm actually like everything. And , and it's like almost intentionally like the way she speaks.

Speaker 3:

She's so stilted. Yeah.

Speaker 5:

But I , I felt like it was like for the plot because I felt like she was really robotic here . I was like, how did she get that robotic? 'cause then in sad goodbye, she's like normal. Like there's a lot of like dialogue that she says, yeah , that's not the same. And I was like, in in mean Janine, this same dialogue would've been like, turned up to a 10. Like it would've she would've said it in the most like , um, not realistic or relatable way ever. But

Speaker 3:

She's had the check now of Claudia saying like, I don't understand you, we don't communicate well because

Speaker 5:

Right .

Speaker 3:

You talk like a weirdo though. Come on Claudia. Like she's acting like she doesn't understand her when she's perfectly clear to understand. Like Yeah ,

Speaker 1:

Like the one ,

Speaker 5:

Like

Speaker 1:

Basically asking her like , what are you gonna do now that your , your president has moved halfway across to cook this town? I'm just like, seriously? I know you're Claudia . That wasn't hard to understand . There's a ,

Speaker 4:

I was just gonna say, even in the first, even in book two, she's, she, that , that's where I first noticed it . Page three. Claudia asked her to close her window because it's cold out. And Janine says, I find it fascinating that in our society we attempt to regulate the temperature of our environment rather than our bodies. It's so much more difficult and highly inefficient. Primitive peoples and peoples in various other societies existing , existing today tended toward the addition or removal of clothing while we invite the use of heating units and air conditioners.

Speaker 5:

No, she's right though.

Speaker 3:

<laugh> . Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Is she?

Speaker 5:

But I still prefer my HVAC <laugh> . I still prefer hvac . I

Speaker 1:

Just feel like annoying would probably would've been more accurate than mean.

Speaker 3:

Yeah . She's

Speaker 5:

Never rhyme. But that

Speaker 2:

Doesn't rhyme. Pedantic is not the same as genius I think is Right . Is I mean, I dunno , we could talk about the whole IQ nonsense thing, but that's a whole,

Speaker 5:

They

Speaker 3:

Talk about discussion a lot in this book

Speaker 2:

As well. They , they talk about it so much.

Speaker 4:

Her IQ is 9 million.

Speaker 2:

I'm having flashback homeschool Janine . I mean I have so many questions about her characterization, which as, I can't remember who pointed out, but it changes. Um, I have questions about her having a computer in the eighties and what it would've looked like . I know there were home computers she

Speaker 3:

Had to

Speaker 2:

Apple. Yeah . It must have been an apple

Speaker 5:

<laugh> .

Speaker 2:

But it's uh ,

Speaker 3:

She talked about the green screen. Yeah . She was like, your face is turning <laugh> .

Speaker 1:

I thought she was just saying you're just being jealous. But that makes a lot

Speaker 3:

More sense. It would've been the black screen with only green. Yeah . Yeah .

Speaker 2:

But like, it's like the way, and I don't know if, I'm not quite sure what Ann and Martin was trying to do, like if this is like Claudia's perspective on her sister being annoying. 'cause you know, you're gonna find your sister annoying. But you know, like, so she's sort of, there's maybe an unreliable narrator or I , you know, I

Speaker 3:

Thinking like a computer Right .

Speaker 2:

Or you know Yeah. Or like a dictionary. Yeah. Like , you know, I'm being pedantic about, here's how you say hopefully, or maybe that was in the previous book. But you're also, I feel like there's a bit where Claudia like doesn't know the meaning of the word vice and I'm like, she

Speaker 3:

And agency, she wouldn't , she's , she , she's

Speaker 2:

When she's 12 or 13 and I'm like, I feel like she would know the meaning of these words most likely. Like, I feel like they're making Claudia like,

Speaker 5:

Well she also doesn't like to read except Nancy Drew books, I guess. Well ,

Speaker 3:

But Claudia also really leans into the I'm dumb, I don't know anything. Right . Like

Speaker 4:

I , yeah. I feel like what, what is so relatable for me about this is this idea that like they're being pushed into roles by their parents. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> that then they feel they have to perform. Yep .

Speaker 3:

Smart

Speaker 4:

One . Which is exactly what happened to me and my sister. Like I was the Janine and my sister was like, oh, she's a musician. You know? And then it's like, okay, well I'm not allowed to cross this barrier, so I'm not allowed to be creative and she's not allowed to be smart or pursue Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And then you do kind of feel like you have to perform that. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . Yep . And then it creates attention because you've been put on opposite sides of some line rather than being allowed to just be whoever you are.

Speaker 2:

Put you in a box. Yeah . But both of you in separate boxes. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . Yeah . It doesn't allow you to try things out and Yeah. Be well-rounded

Speaker 4:

People Yeah. And their parents. I think their parents feel like they're supporting them by like seeing their strength and encouraging it, but then they're kind of, that's the detriment of any other qualities.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. I feel like I understood from a sister dynamic why there was like always tensions between 'em and why like, they just took everything that the other said just the wrong way. I mean granted Claudia always meant it Yeah . <laugh> the way that Janine took it. Like she was very direct about that. But I think, you know, the other way where it was Janine would just say something and Claudia would just be like, are you calling me dumb? Like Yeah . Yeah . Um , but Claudia's

Speaker 3:

Kind of all in and Janine's all ego. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , you know , like Claudia, she runs very hot. Mm . Like she goes from zero to like a hundred on the outrage meter over nothing basically. Yeah . All the time. And she's like very quick to jump to. I hate you about like everything. She doesn't process her feelings well at all. I think she just kind of goes straight into just emotional overload and Janine's completely the opposite. It's like she's just gotten rid of her feelings completely to sort of be like Kelsey said, this box that she's been put in is the smart one, the studious one. The responsible one. Well, you're not allowed to have feelings if you're that person. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . You are just a robot. You're a machine that's cranking out classes. And

Speaker 5:

Claudia being like, oh no one takes what I do. Seriously. And so that's why I'm always asked to take care of Mimi. And then Janine is like, no, you volunteer all the time to do it. And then, or people assume that I'm too busy or like I don't care to do it. Um, and so like it's kind of like, yeah, you're put in this box and then it's kind of, people perceive all of your actions based on that. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And I thought it was a fairly sophisticated, when they have their heart to heart about things, I thought it was a fairly sophisticated conversation to put in a kid's book. Like Janine had a lot of self insight into this makes me feel some sort of way when you guys don't ask me to help with this and you don't do this. It's like, I'm not a person, I'm just my academic output. You know? And I think that that's, that's an important thing for kids to hear. You know, someone else feels like that because I think it is easy to feel like that as ,

Speaker 4:

And I think too, I thought it was, I thought the conversation too about like, I don't have ESP was really good. Like, I think even though Claudia's emotionally very like dynamic, she also is very good at kind of intuiting other people's emotions. And so she more naturally falls into like the caretaker role for Mimi and knowing how to help and be there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And it's not natural for Janine. And I think then kind of the roles that have put on her have kind of further isolated her. And I think both like Janine saying, Hey, I want you to invite me to do stuff. And then Claudia saying, Hey, why don't you just like, make yourself more present so that it's easier to make that ask so that we remember that you wanna be part of it. <laugh> I think was like good too, that we can't always it , we need to be clear about what we need, but we also need to like, just kind of show up and Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> allow things to happen. And I think she forgot

Speaker 2:

That part. Yeah. The meeting halfway. Yeah. Because yeah, like, I mean, kind of gets back to gendering. Like not everyone is gonna be naturally nurturing. Um, and Jeanine's not and that's okay. And is it, has she been shoved into a box where that's been cut out of her life? Or is that just how she naturally is? Who knows? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . But I mean, should she try to, like you said, show up and make herself available? Yeah, probably. But

Speaker 3:

So what is Claudia doing to fix this situation? Because that was kind of at the end of the book. It's Yeah, you had this big talk and you tell Janine a bunch of things she should do to fix it. But I didn't hear a lot of things that Claudia was gonna do to fix it. It was Right .

Speaker 1:

Well,

Speaker 4:

She said she was gonna ask more.

Speaker 3:

Right . But she didn't ever say like, I will stop being a total jerk to you about everything. That's thought , that's

Speaker 4:

Just implied.

Speaker 1:

I do like that she, that Janine was basically like, yeah, you know, I feel like you guys kind of just pushed me into my own world that I only expect those things of me. She's like, nobody ever asked me to accompany them. And, and yeah. So I, I also liked that they had that conversation and then Claudia was like, well you know, you should talk to mom and dad about this. Like,

Speaker 3:

I thought that was great and

Speaker 1:

I kind of wish we could have seen a little bit of what that conversation with the parents looked like. Even though that's more Claudia, I mean that's more Janine than Claudia, but it kind of would've been interesting. Um, I feel like as a book for kids, like it probably would've been interesting for them to see how a healthy conversation with their parents could possibly go.

Speaker 3:

Yeah . Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And I think we do get that one in the next book when they have the discussion, when they're going through the things we see a really nice, like family relationship and talking about things. But

Speaker 5:

More so for Claudia because I feel like she , she's so external about everything that she does, especially when she like blows up about things that's versus like Janine being really internal and like, you know, she kind of like feels these things internally. 'cause she has the kind of the time and quietness and space to do it. She just doesn't like tell anyone about it versus like Claudia where it's like a lot of the time she doesn't realize what she's feeling until it like blows up. Mm-Hmm .

Speaker 3:

<affirmative> . Can we return to the Nancy Drew thing? <laugh> . So we learned , we learned that Claudia's mother is the head librarian at the local public library. We are also told that the local public library does not stalk Nancy Drew's, which is bizarre. What

Speaker 4:

Do they have?

Speaker 3:

Exactly. That's what I like. We still have Nancy Drew's 40 years after this book was written. There's no way any public library in the eighties had zero. Nancy Drew's

Speaker 2:

Must be a really crappy public library .

Speaker 3:

They were still releasing new Nancy Drews then <laugh> . Like , I ,

Speaker 4:

I just wanna know who hurt Anna Martin. That's

Speaker 1:

<laugh>

Speaker 3:

Who didn't let have a Nancy Drew . I mean , most

Speaker 2:

Authors have a pretty good sense of what public library , well, most authors who publish like literature for you know, adults, young adults. You think so? Children have a pretty good idea of the role of libraries and what they hold. Like I'm very

Speaker 5:

Confused. Yeah. I wish there was like some backstory to it. Like it was so popular that they like they're never on

Speaker 3:

The shelves .

Speaker 5:

Yeah . They're never on the shelves. Or like they'd walk, you know, Claudia's

Speaker 3:

Just really misinterpreting.

Speaker 5:

Yeah .

Speaker 1:

Kind of wanna ask her on Twitter, but I don't know how active she is on Twitter. If we'll ever get a respond . Let's find that . Right . I did one the Lois Lowry like a couple episodes back and she eventually responded to me but didn't give you the answer. I was like , oh , I'm such a cop out .

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I mean I also think that the, you know, we could take the position that maybe because Claudia's mom does not believe in Nancy Drews for Claudia, she's now weeded it for the entire community of Stony Brook, which is,

Speaker 2:

That is not okay.

Speaker 3:

<laugh> not okay. And very bad librarianship. But it's bad librarianship to like tell your kid that they can't read books that they love. Even if the books are a little young for them to

Speaker 1:

The point where they're hiding them

Speaker 3:

Bad , especially, and it's actually a kid that's , that's struggling with a learning disability. Let her read what she enjoys reading. Like it's a huge win that she loves these books so much that she's hiding them in her room. Yeah . Nancy

Speaker 2:

Drew is perfect for her. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And so, you know, I totally can see how Janine would feel very pressured because she's already sending this pressure to Claudia about like, you're better than this. Like, these books are not good enough for you. And that's her kid who's struggling. So like yeah, Janine talks like a weirdo and is completely focused on schooling probably because the messaging she's gotten from her parents is that's where the value is. Like don't Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> don't act like a kid. You need to be an academic. I just

Speaker 4:

Wanna know if they have any groups in their children's section because I mean like Nancy Drew is not that bad. It's like what is she <laugh> , what is her objection and what is she allowing children to read <laugh> . Yeah. For the entire city of Stony Brook

Speaker 3:

<laugh> . Yeah. I mean I feel like this is, you know, we see parents sometimes that come in where they want their children to have these, you know , educational books, edifying online books , edifying texts. I , I hate , I hate,

Speaker 2:

I hate That's

Speaker 3:

What, and so that's always something that I think we negotiate with parents when they come in where it's like, okay, let me show you the value of this graphic and why this is just as legit as this biography that your kid does not wanna read. But it's really inexcusable that that's where her mom's coming from. Both as a librarian and also because if this child has been diagnosed with a learning disability, I would think that her teachers or whoever diagnosed her is certainly not giving the message that you want to create more barriers to her reading. Right. It's just bizarre. How

Speaker 4:

Did she get promoted to head Librarian <laugh> ? So

Speaker 3:

I'm reading

Speaker 4:

The foyer records.

Speaker 2:

What does head librarian mean? Does it mean like

Speaker 3:

Branch manager? Okay.

Speaker 2:

Because like that's very vague.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I guess so there's,

Speaker 1:

There's a um, I guess they talk more about the libraries and the , and the library . About the library and the other books. 'cause there's a whole like Stony book , public Library Babysitter's Club fandom page. Yeah . On Wiki <laugh> and like it talks about the library's only been around for like about nine years and the children's area's only open till 5:00 PM Um, they have copies of Stony Brook news on microfilm as far back as 1820. But you don't have Nancy Drew once , right ?

Speaker 3:

<laugh> . Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah , she's

Speaker 2:

Bizarre. She does appear to be on Twitter. Um,

Speaker 1:

She hasn't tweeted in 2019.

Speaker 2:

She Yeah , she hasn't . Um , yeah, so

Speaker 1:

The children's room used to be shabby but it was renovated. The newer room is really two rooms that take up one window paneled corner of the first floor of the library. The main room holds the children's librarian's desk, the card catalog computer and the factor section, the smaller room. There are two newly acquired computers that kids can sign up to use along with all the nonfiction books. Both rooms are full of books and nooks and crannies where kids can curl up and read blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 4:

It just curl up and read that biography. Yeah .

Speaker 3:

<laugh> , right .

Speaker 1:

<laugh> Nothing fun. Just yeah. Oh . Says fascinating. The library has many books but doesn't have Claudia's favorites Nancy Drew books. There are poetry books that Vanessa likes. The library has books about robots that Nikki likes. They have CD ROMs of the Connecticut phone book on order. Nice and physical copies of them as well. But you don't have Nancy

Speaker 3:

Drum . That's wild books .

Speaker 1:

It almost got down . And also,

Speaker 3:

Don't you have a school library? They would have Nancy Drew .

Speaker 2:

They should . They definitely should. Right. Even

Speaker 3:

That's so strange. Yeah .

Speaker 2:

It would probably have more in their school library in the eighties than they do now.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It's also wouldn't have a weird take like of all of the books that, you know, they're people look down on Nancy Drew has not been one that I've encountered people saying like , why I just don't want them to get a Nancy Drew. They're like

Speaker 2:

S squeaky clean. They're, you know, they're kind of in the, you know, borderline classic , uh, category almost.

Speaker 3:

Yes . The , and there's no pictures. Hardly. You get like five or six little ink drawings in them. So like it's chapter books, which most parents are like yay chapter books. So I, it's very strange.

Speaker 4:

I really, and that, that was the thing I noticed though, is like you hear from Claudia and how strict their parents are, but you never actually really hear from the parents. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . They just kind of float in and out. So I am curious, like I do wish we had heard a little bit more directly from them about like what they've put upon the kids. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Well and I do think, going back to Hannah saying, is Claudia a reliable narrator? <laugh> ? I question it times because she does make such extreme leaps when people say things that like, yeah, if this is through her lens, maybe some things are getting distorted maybe. But we also have, Janine is aware that 'cause she doesn't know what a serial is , um, < laugh > Janine's aware that Claudia's hiding Nancy Drew's and she's like, I think that's in the next book. So I should probably say that.

Speaker 5:

No, I think it's mean. Janine.

Speaker 3:

Is it mean

Speaker 5:

Janine? Yeah. Because

Speaker 3:

She's like, okay, you know, you messed up when we were talking just there and you admitted you had a Nancy drew in your room. I won't tell mom and dad about that. Does Mimi know about it? And she's like, yes. Mimi knows about it and she doesn't tell mom and dad. So like there's at least some confirmation that her parents don't want her to have Nancy Drew. Which is just so strange. Right. Start talking

Speaker 2:

About when she's hiding Playboys or cigarettes. Exactly.

Speaker 3:

< laugh > . It's

Speaker 5:

Like Nancy.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. When the worst you get is done is hide some Nancy Drews and Oreos. Like, I feel like that's so tame. I think your

Speaker 2:

Kid is doing all right.

Speaker 5:

< laugh > . I mean, speaking of that scene though, that was also where um, well I don't know if it was that exact scene, but I think it was that book where Claudia gets mad at Mimi and says that like, she likes Janine more. And I was like, in what < laugh > what

Speaker 3:

World does, how do you interpret

Speaker 5:

That? How do you interpret that? Because all the time she literally, she even says like in this book, and I think in the um, goodbye, like the sad goodbye, she says like, oh, I'm the only one that Mimi calls my my Claudia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, yeah. And then like, and she says many times that they do a lot of things without Janine. So I just feel like there's just mm - Hmm. I don't know how you would interpret that Mimi has a preference for Janine. So again, but

Speaker 3:

It's just insecurity maybe. Yeah . I mean

Speaker 4:

I think it just goes back to that like division they've put between the two sisters. Like when you are in that kind of situation, like you think the other, I mean, and they talk

Speaker 3:

About it again , everything's a competition. Everything's

Speaker 4:

A competition. And you think that the skills that the other ones perceive to have are the better ones. Like

Speaker 3:

Yeah . They both think each other is of each other as the golden child. Right. And it doesn't really seem like either of them are correct. I don't know that there is a golden child because other than the weird Nancy Drew thing, Claudia does seem valued. Like yes, they're trying to get her to do better at school, but they're doing it in a pretty supportive way. Like they're not like ripping her to shreds about grades and stuff. They're just trying to keep her on track, but they value a lot of the things that she's doing. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , like she is reaffirmed pretty continually over her care for Mimi. And you know, they certainly are supportive of her babysitter's club endeavor since they're hosting them every other day. I mean, they're meeting three times a week. They're like , they got her her own phone line. Like they seem like supportive parents generally, other than some weird quirks and maybe the Yeah . Kind of striver mentality. So yeah, I mean I think it is, it's a reliability thing. Like how much of this is really coming from the parents and how much of it is Claudia interpreting it in that way? And that's, I that's any relationship, right? Like it's always more than black and white, you know, it's not like you did this, so this is what happens. 'cause intent isn't always how something lands and it's clearly landing differently for her

Speaker 2:

And everything is so heightened when you're growing up. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And especially like that age, like you are right in puberty and like, I mean , I get that her emotions feel like blah , like just, she's kind of overflowing all the time with her. Her emotions. I didn't wanna bring up the , like they meet three times a week for 30 minutes. Yeah. I want to join a place of employment where a meeting is 30 minutes.

Speaker 6:

That nice .

Speaker 2:

I think of her lasts for just 30 minutes.

Speaker 3:

They seem to accomplish kind of a lot in 30 minutes. Yeah . They all put in notebook entries. They do all of the bookings. They pay their dues, they take phone calls. Like

Speaker 2:

I , I feel like this is an unrealistic portrayal of how time works, especially with children, but it's pretty, yeah , I mean, I don't know . I , but

Speaker 3:

It's aspirational, <laugh> like a 30 minute meeting.

Speaker 2:

I think about this a lot. Like it's slight tangent, but if you'll bear with me for

Speaker 6:

A moment , <laugh> .

Speaker 2:

So like, I I, people accomplish so much in like a minute and I think about all the time when I'm like running late for some place and I'm like, okay, I'm walking out to the car, I'm parking, I'm going up to the place, I'm, I blink and two minutes go by and I'm like, time just slips away. And I'm like, this is not how time only works like this in media, in books and movies and TV shows. And I'm, and I'm watching like this stresses me out when I'm watching any sort of like action movie or like science fiction thing or anything. 24

Speaker 6:

<laugh> .

Speaker 2:

Yes. And I'm like, no, because so much of life is just sitting there waiting for something to happen and time is just dribbling through your fingertips and you can't get anything done in 30 minutes. Anyhow, I'm done. Thank you .

Speaker 6:

Thank you for attending my Ted talk <laugh> .

Speaker 1:

I did say that, you know, they're, they seem like Kristy's very strict on like, you know, we're only talking about

Speaker 3:

Yeah,

Speaker 5:

I was gonna say, I think Christie keeps them too . She does to business. Well

Speaker 3:

That's an agenda.

Speaker 6:

She's efficient. I'll give her that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah . They use Robert's rules of order. Like did you notice that in the first book? Like I make a motion . I did not notice that I make a motion for us to do this. I second this.

Speaker 6:

Yes . Yeah .

Speaker 3:

Like can we have the treasurer's report?

Speaker 6:

They were like , we're looking in the back

Speaker 3:

And being like, yep , we have ,

Speaker 6:

We have money <laugh> .

Speaker 3:

No, I mean they're very organized. Like I, you know, we can laugh about Christie putting the visor on, but she runs a tight ship.

Speaker 2:

Maybe it's a magic visor. I

Speaker 3:

Have a question for y'all . How is a magic like a poker play visor , like <laugh> ? Because I couldn't imagine , what would the visor be for a boss? I don't know what that is.

Speaker 1:

So my question for y'all was gonna be , I noticed when I was reading the the , um, we haven't gotten to this one yet, but Claudia and the S goodbye, I noticed when I was reading it on my Kindle, I have the older version and in the beginning, like when they wrote in their notebook it was Incursive. Yeah. So I looked in this book to see if it was Incursive and I flipped over the page and it is Incursive. Oh . Which is something I find interesting

Speaker 3:

Because it depends who's writing it though.

Speaker 2:

Interesting.

Speaker 3:

Writing changes by who's writing it . So Maryanne has beautiful cursive. Yeah . Christie has kind of like odd cursive.

Speaker 1:

I think I'm just more so surprised that in, in like the recent editions, they've included cursive considering that

Speaker 3:

Because kids can't read it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

<laugh>.

Speaker 3:

Yeah .

Speaker 2:

I listened to that book and so I completely missed out on that note and noting that. Yeah.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. It was my

Speaker 3:

Favorite part . Yeah, I love that. And like Stacey's has the little heart eyes .

Speaker 1:

Yeah . I used to write like that <laugh> ,

Speaker 2:

I used to know how to write in cursive and I've completely forgotten.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I'm really slow at it. Oh, cursive is my man. I hate printing,

Speaker 4:

But I'm going fast. Yeah. I write in cursive.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. 'cause it's so much faster for me. I honestly

Speaker 1:

Mostly

Speaker 2:

The ability to write by hand.

Speaker 1:

I have a friend from college who always wrote me cursive and I thought that was so interesting 'cause I can write in cursive, but like she writes everything in cursive and it's funny 'cause she just sent me a baby shower invite and she still does that. That I think it's just so cute. Oh

Speaker 4:

Yeah ,

Speaker 2:

It is . I mean it is a good skill in terms of like not lifting your hand from the page as much. So Yeah. But

Speaker 4:

The thing I noticed about , um, this book is that the dedication, wait, was it this one?

Speaker 2:

Which, which one ? Maybe

Speaker 4:

It was just in the ebook.

Speaker 3:

Oh, is it the one to Jean F and

Speaker 4:

No, the ebook I read, it's different than the print book , but weird. But in the ebook it says , uh, the author would like to thank Claudia Warner for her sensitive evaluation of the manuscript.

Speaker 1:

I did see that and I was wondering who that was and what was being evaluated. Is that in

Speaker 4:

The print book or just in the

Speaker 1:

Ebook? I around on the ebook.

Speaker 4:

I thought the eBook was okay. I'm interesting. I'm baffled. 'cause now it's not in the original, but it was in the eBook, but now it's not in the new book. So where did that go? < laugh > ? Um, but I looked up, I was trying to figure out who Claudia Warner was 'cause I was trying to figure out what she evaluated. Like I feel, I thought at first maybe it was like about like the portrayal of Mimi as being like a Japanese immigrant and like the language, making sure it's appropriate. But then I thought maybe it was about her portrayal of her. Um, I, the only Claudia Warner I could find was a doctor or like a nurse, maybe the talk about a stroke. So I thought maybe it was about the stroke and like what would happen to you if you, I don't know. I was very interested and then I thought maybe it was Claudia's namesake. Mm-Hmm. But , um,

Speaker 1:

She is,

Speaker 4:

She is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I found a Babysitter's club fandom Wiki page. Ooh . It says Claudia Warner. Now Dr. Claudia Warner is a medical doctor and Anne Ann Martin's friend at Smith College and the namesakes for Claudia KeHE in the Babysitter's Club series. She's also the namesake for Dr. Warner a , a Doctor Stacey sees in truth about Stacey Diabetes. Um, so I guess she's , um, anytime Martin wrote a book dealing with medical issues, Warner will review it for accuracy. She's credited in Martin's Dear Reader letter at the end of book number 43, Stacey's Emergency. She's also thanked for her help at the beginning of several books, including The Truth About Stacey.

Speaker 2:

Hmm. Interesting. And they have pictures of

Speaker 4:

Them together and Claudia, me and Janine sometimes. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So it just says it. Just mention, oh yeah, it says book mentions the truth about Stacey Claudia and Mean Janine Stacey's emergency. Yeah. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 4:

. But I guess she didn't read the parts where they just talked about Stacey having diabetes and not being able to eat things.

Speaker 2:

Diabetes, yeah. < laugh > , maybe they chalked it up to a bunch of kids, not really understanding it .

Speaker 3:

Yeah,

Speaker 2:

I guess. But,

Speaker 3:

And I guess at the time, to be fair, the folks that I knew that were diabetic diabetes, that was how I interpreted it mostly. It was like, man, it must suck to be diabetic because you can't eat anything fun and you have to give yourself shots. Diabetes like,

Speaker 4:

But like you would think at some point they would see that Stacey can eat something sweet sometimes.

Speaker 3:

But does she, I mean

Speaker 2:

She

Speaker 3:

Doesn't, she only eats like sugar-free stuff.

Speaker 2:

It does seem like her parents don't have a very solid, solid

Speaker 3:

Grasp on reality

Speaker 2:

< laugh > . So I can see them creating the environment at home or getting her the information she needs to know how to manage it well. Yeah, that's

Speaker 4:

It. It did make me wonder if maybe like, I'm just reading it with like a 20, 24 lens on diabetes where you have much more like real time awareness and so you can be a little less

Heather:

Strict. I think so. 'cause this would've been back in the, she was going to the nurse to fingerstick multiple times a day probably to test her sugar. So yeah, for the girls it probably was just like, Stacey can't eat that. She'll go blind. Like yeah,

Speaker 2:

< laugh > And I honestly don't know a ton about diabetes. Diabetes and I imagine it's probably there's some very different for different people but, and treatment's probably different, but yeah. Hmm. Confusing

Heather:

Much like Maryanne's foray into adult caregiving, we bit off a little more than we could chew with the Claudia books. We'll be resuming our discussion about Claudia in a couple of weeks with part two, Claudia and the Sad Goodbye In the meantime, that's it for this episode of These Books Made Me as always, follow us on Instagram. We're @TheseBooksMadeMe or #TheseBooksMadeMe on Twitter or Facebook.