These Books Made Me

The Hunger Games

• Prince George's County Memorial Library System • Season 4 • Episode 1

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Much like Katniss Everdeen, in this episode we are faced with some very tough choices. Four librarians enter the podcasting studio, only one will leave! Actually no librarian podcasters had to fight to the death during the making of this episode, though we did learn that Darlene would simply opt out of the Hunger Games, so I think we can safely assume she's not library Mockingjay. That's right, we're taking a trip down horrible child fatality memory lane this episode with Suzanne Collins's YA blockbuster, The Hunger Games. We learned a lot about weapons, wound care, and wingmen ('sup, Thresh) as we returned to Panem. We dissect the ambiguous morality of the citizens of the Capitol, rue the author's real struggle with names, and briefly debate Team Peeta vs. Team Gale (or in possibly Heather's worst hot take ever, Team Haymitch).

These Books Made Me is a podcast about the literary heroines who shaped us and is a product of the Prince George's County Memorial Library System podcast network. Stay in touch with us via Twitter @PGCMLS with #TheseBooksMadeMe or by email at TheseBooksMadeMe@pgcmls.info. For recommended readalikes and deep dives into topics related to each episode, visit our blog at https://pgcmls.medium.com/.

We cover a lot of ground in this episode and used some books and articles as jumping off points. Here’s a brief list of some of them if you want to do your own further research:

Suzanne Collins revisits the Games: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/books/suzanne-collins-talks-about-the-hunger-games-the-books-and-the-movies.html

Feminism and The Hunger Games (note, this is a thesis and long but intriguing!): https://cornerstone.lib.mnsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1126&context=etds

Hawa:

Hi, I am Hawa.

Hannah:

I'm Hannah.

Heather:

I'm Heather.

Darlene:

And I'm Darlene.

Hawa:

And this is our podcast. These Book Made Me. Today we're going to be talking about The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins. Friendly warning, as always, this podcast contains spoilers

Heather:

That we didn't write down. I thought we were gonna put Rue in there.

Hawa:

I'm sorry, I was supposed to do that. I just, everybody. Um , if you don't yet know,

Heather:

Who flies like a butterfly? Sings like a bird.

Hawa:

I like that. We're, Today we're going to be talking about The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins. Friendly warning as always, this podcast contains spoilers. If you don't yet know who flies like a butterfly, sings like a bird. Proceed with caution content. Warning, this episode contains references to alcoholism and child fatalities.

Darlene:

So what did this book mean to you? And was this everyone's first time reading? If not, how did this reread compare to your memories of reading it when you were younger?

Hawa:

So, for me, this was kind of my first time reading it. I mean, like, when the movies were about to come out, I was working at a movie theater and like I had a friend who was like passing around the books. And I got like a couple pages in enough to remember that. Like I know that there were some things just from the first couple of chapters that had been changed in the movie. So this is my first time completing the book past chapter six. And honestly, I loved having the experience of like finishing this book from the beginning. The only thing is, I do kind of wish I had read it before I'd seen the movies, but it's like 10 plus years too late for that

Hannah:

<laugh>. I'd read them before when they came out roughly? Well, some of the later books I think I read shortly after they came out. 'cause I had read the first one , um, and was hooked. So I think I read them pre movies 10ish years ago. I wasn't a kid when I read them, but I guess I was technically younger than I am now. It was, you know, interesting to come back and reread the first one.

Heather:

Yeah. Same for me. I read them as they came out. I don't really know why or how I heard about 'em < laugh > when they first dropped, but I, I know I read them contemporaneous to their release and I enjoyed them. I thought they were nice examples of ya books. I've read these books several times since then. Um, so this was like a multi reread for me. I still enjoy the book. Like, I, I think it's a good example of dystopian novel. It's plotty, it moves, it's, it's not perfect, but it's overall a fun reread.

Darlene:

Yeah. So it also was not my first time reading it, but I read it closer to when the movies were gonna come out. And I think this was like kind of my first in my, I don't know if it's my last or only dystopian novel, but I know that afterward I was like, I don't think dystopian novels are really for me. But I did like it and it really reminded me of The Lottery. I think growing up. U h, so I think that also gave me like an entryway into it. Yeah. That being said, I was just like, I don't think dystopian, like I enjoyed this book, but I still don't think that dystopian novels are really for me. I think they're just too bleak. And I feel like that's kind of how this book kind of leaves you feeling. Even this one, even though you know, like how things are gonna pan out after like it's, it just gets progressively worse. < l augh>

Hawa:

That's so funny because as a kid, when I was like a reader, I really remember loving dystopian books. But picking this up, I didn't feel the need to finish. But also, I just really wasn't a reader at the time. But like, when I first picked it up and now I'm like, Hmm, maybe I might need to get back into my dystopian bag. < laugh > .

Heather:

Yeah. Same. I, I think that as a genre works pretty well for me. And like, I remember reading a lot of similar things around the time that I read Hunger Games, like Maze Runner, there was a lot of dystopian YA stuff coming out in the, I guess late aughts, which I've mostly enjoyed. You know, some of them are better than others and some are really formulaic, but The Lottery has to be an inspiration for this book.

Darlene:

Mm- H mm.

Heather:

Like, it has to be. But I think she did some interesting things with it. And it was, you know, there's some memorable characters and there's certainly some very memorable scenes from it. So I can understand why you said it's kind of like, oh, off-putting too heavy. Because there are definitely scenes from this that stick with you, which I guess we'll talk about later. But, you know, especially I think it's Cato at the cornucopia at the end, that is a really rough death scene to be in. What's essentially a children's book.

Hawa:

< laugh >.

Heather:

It is intense. And I don't know, it had big shades of like, uh Ramsey Bolton's death scene too, where it's like, yikes.

Hannah:

It's definitely dark. I don't think it struck me as exceptionally dark, which probably says a lot about my normal reading fare.

Multiple Voices:

< laugh >.

Hannah:

I don't really seek out dystopias per se. I, I would say they are. And a lot of the stuff I read or read a lot of horror and science fiction. I think there's a lot of darkness in the things that I read this.

:

Mm - Hmm. .

Hannah:

That being said, this certainly is dark.

Darlene:

It's funny 'cause when I was read rereading it, I was , uh, it reminded me of , um, so I watched <unintelligible> um, on the plane or on a plane ride. And I remember feeling so anxious. I was like, that just happened here. All of a sudden I was like, you know what? I would give in and just die.

Audio Clip:

I feel like I'm gonna die.

Darlene:

That would be okay to me.

Hawa:

< l augh> ,

Heather:

Darlene would quit < laugh > .

Darlene:

I would just quit because I was like,

Heather:

Darlene would simply not attend The Hunger Games

Hawa:

< laugh > .

Darlene:

I'd be like just kill me here. Like, I can't, I can't deal with it. So anyway, like I'm in awe of her, like her fighting spirit. But I'm like, during it, I was like, like if you just gave up here, would it be so bad? And like, I just, sometimes I think I kept like thinking to myself like, what's keeping her going? And then that's why I like mentioned that.

Heather:

Spite.

Hannah:

Yes

Darlene:

yes. spite.

Hannah:

Powered by spite.

Darlene:

Yeah. But then I was like, I guess I was like thinking for myself. I was like, yeah, I'm like, there are some things that would keep me going. But I also feel like at some point I feel like I would just have to see the futility in it. Like it's just, there's something about this , um, knowing like that it just gets progressively worse. Even the people that like she fights for, I guess that's kind of a spoiler. Like Prim dies. And then afterward I just think to myself like, and she just keeps going. Like she has that fighter spirit, which again, I'm in awe of, but can't really relate. < laugh > .

Hawa:

Yeah. I would've been like , um, what are the odds

Effie Trinket:

May the odds be ever in your favor.

Hawa:

Like, mm. Me against how many other people? Mm. Yeah. It's a no for me. Just make it quick and easy, please. <laugh>.

Heather:

Yeah. It is , uh, interesting going back to like, sort of what Hannah said, the, I think dystopian stuff is very genre blurring in a lot of ways. I mean, I guess it is kind of its own thing, but like, as you start to think of other books, there's a lot in sci-fi that's dystopian. There's a lot in horror that's dystopian. And I, I think you definitely can see sort of those touchstones for her in the book.

Darlene:

It almost leans a little sci-fi kind of, but like with the mutations and all those weird

Heather:

Yes. With the mutts and the, and I think , uh, again, spoilers, sorry, Hawa. Um ,

Hawa:

It's fine. I've seen the movies.

Heather:

She's in the later books, like the technology becomes even more.

Darlene:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

Of a, like in catching fire, especially the, the technology of the arena becomes a much more critical

Hannah:

Mm-Hmm.

Heather:

...factor to things.

:

Mm-Hmm.

Darlene:

um, i n Mockingjay, you get this sort of like Andromeda Strainesque world that is district 13, you know? And so I, I think, yeah, again, you can see these reference points for her in the book and I think that's kind of cool. But this really was like just, it was the right book at the right time for when dystopian stuff was kind of e verywhere. And it wasn't just ya. I mean, I think it was very popular in ya, but it was certainly in a dult fiction as well.

Hawa:

Mm-Hmm.

Heather:

I feel like The Passage was kind of around the same time.

Darlene:

Mm-Hmm.

Hannah:

Yeah.

Heather:

Yeah. Which is maybe more horror-coded, but you know, to me is like just a very like, true dystopian hellscape or like Walking Dead, you know, I think a lot of these things were kind of just very much the zeitgeist of the time, which, you know, I, I suppose says something about being an American in 2008.

Hawa:

<laugh>.

Hannah:

Yeah. If I had to call this one genre, I would call this science fiction. I think it fits very comfortably into it. I mean, it certainly, it's blendy like you said. Um, and sci-fi can certainly do that. But I think this is, you could very solidly argue for this being science fiction.

Heather:

Yeah. It's not crunchy sci-fi. Right.

Hannah:

No.

Heather:

But like it, that's certainly important to

Hannah:

It's a fictional future.

Heather:

Exactly. Okay. Time for a plot summary. Um ,

Audio Clip:

She's lost the plot.

Heather:

Here we go. Katniss Everdeen is a teen girl who has grown up in District 12, a mining community in the dystopian Hellscape of Panem. Panem is a post-apocalyptic version of the United States, which has been carved into 12 struggling districts in a glittering Capitol. As punishment for a rebellion by District 13, the Capitol has instituted a forced annual event for the districts called the Hunger Games,

Effie Trinket:

Happy Hunger Games , and may the odds be ever in your favor.

Heather:

A teen battle to the death that is televised, bet on, looked forward to by the residents of the Capitol and dreaded by most of the districts. Children are selected for the Hunger Games each year at the Reaping. And each district must send a boy and a girl to compete. Katniss volunteers as tribute after her little sister Prim is selected.

Katniss:

I volunteer. I volunteer, I volunteer as tribute,

Heather:

And is joined by Peeta, the baker's son. They are mentored in the games by the only living former District 12, victor, Haymitch, who is a trainwreck of an alcoholic. Unbeknownst to Katniss, Haymitch and Peeta have conspired to keep her alive after Peeta declares his love for Katniss on live television. Before the games, they become the talk of the games when they are dropped into the arena and the game begins. Katniss believes Peeta has betrayed her and joined up with the career tributes from the two wealthiest districts. Peeta is working a long con, however, and sacrifices himself to save Katniss who later finds him mortally wounded, hiding in mud in the arena.

Audio Clip:

Well, maybe he camouflage himself. Maybe he's a real life Peeta Mellark.

Heather:

She nurses him back to health and their love story unfolds on national television. Ultimately, Katniss defies the rules of the game as she and Peeta threaten a Romeo and Juliet style suicide, forcing the Capitol to declare them joint winners.

Hannah:

So a little bit about the author. Um, Suzanne Collins was born in Hartford, Connecticut on August 10th, 1962. The youngest of four children. Her father was an officer in the Air Force. And so she had a nomadic childhood living in places that included Brussels, New York City, Indiana, and Alabama. Collins would graduate from Indiana University in 1985 after double majoring in theater and telecommunications. She also earned an MFA in dramatic writing from New York University in 1989. After finishing graduate school, Collins began writing for television, writing for shows like Little Bear and Clarissa Explains it all.

Heather:

< laugh > What? What?

Speaker 2:

I found that out.

:

Y'all what? < laugh >

Speaker 2:

Wild.

Speaker 3:

Yes. My mind is blown.

Hannah:

Suzanne Collins explains it all.

:

Yeah. < laugh > .

Hannah:

She would later become the head writer for Clifford's Puppy Days.

Heather:

Oh my God. She has shaped my life in so many ways. I didn't even know that's too whole Range. Yes.

Hannah:

She published her first book, Gregor The Overlander in 2003, which started her Underland series and became a New York Times bestseller. However, Collins is best known for her Hunger Games series, which she says was inspired by watching both Iraq War coverage and reality tv, and the similarities between the two. The series would sell over 100 million copies worldwide and become a successful film franchise. Collins is married and has two children.

Heather:

Okay. So let's talk the games just to lead off Katniss as a role model. Katniss as a feminist icon. Where do we fall on this one?

Darlene:

You know, I think it's one of those strange things where there's no trying kind of like, it really is a character that is just fighting for her life for like, she was just kind of put in this predicament and everything she does is out of survival. Like I think, you know, there's, there is a question and we'll get into it I guess a bit later about whether she even, like, she loves Peeta, but it's, I think like, what is it? Her survival skills kind of kick in. Um, and that's why she like knows to play the game along with it. That even she doesn't really know the difference. Like I feel like her first thing above every other feeling or emotion is really like survival and I don't know. 'cause I was thinking about that. I was like, is she a role model or not for it? To me, I just took it as a character that's just trying really hard to exist and still be in this place no matter how bleak it is.

Hannah:

She is doing the very best she can with the terrible choices that she has in front of her.

Heather:

Yeah. I mean it's almost one of those like Maslow's hierarchy of needs things where can we even talk about < laugh > feminism when it's just like, you're starving and now people are trying to kill you. I don't think that's on her radar. That being said, I do feel like she's a kind of general role model.

:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

And that, you know, who else would you want on your team when the chips are down? Like she is a fighter. Yeah. She is a survivor. Just the whole bit after her dad died and her mom, it sounded like she was essentially catatonic for...

Hannah:

Her mom is useless

Heather:

A a long period of time. < laugh > . I mean that's fair though. Yes . You know. Yeah. U m, she even says, you know, that she understands that that was not intentional from her mom and that her mom shut down, but that she basically will never be able to trust her as a parent.

:

Mm - Hmm .

Heather:

Because she failed them so terribly. Like they would've just starved to death.

:

Mm-Hmm.

Heather:

And she had , but Katniss was so young when that happened.

:

She wasn't 12, she couldn't even put her name in to get grain or.

Hawa:

That's exactly what I was gonna say. Like, she wasn't even 12 yet. And then just the whole concept of her putting her name in so she, they can get more like it's just

Hannah:

Yeah, I'm, I'm trying to feel sympathy of her mom 'cause she lost her partner, but her children were starving. She needed to get up and do something.

Heather:

Well, she couldn't because like Darlene, she just said no, she wasn't going to play <laugh> <laugh> . She, I mean, but I guess that does sort of bring up the issue of not everyone is going to be able to make it in those types of circumstances. So you are gonna have people that shut down and that probably is very realistic. You know, it's understandable as a human being, but as a parent, your obligation is your children. And she failed there. And then Katniss became like the most parentified 10-year-old of all time. That's just really tragic because we, we also see with Gale, who in some ways is very similar, you know?

:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

same circumstance with his father dying, but his mom is still grinding and doing anything she can to put food on the table. He's doing a whole lot to support the family, but his mom didn't abandon them essentially. So I totally get the anger that she has with her mom.

Hannah:

Katniss had the same grief as her mom and she was not an adult. I mean,

:

yeah,

Hannah:

they're not the same grief, but the same magnitude of grief. And like, there's a quote that I keep thinking of like, you know, children might or might not be a blessing, but to have them and then fail them is surely damnation <laugh>.

Heather:

It is weird though because her mom is a healer, right?

:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

She is basically.

:

mm - Hmm. Doctor midwife. She's the everything for their community. And Katniss mentions multiple times that when someone is hurt, her mom just kicks into gear and is like another zone. You know? She is just in full focus on how do I repair this person? How do I help them? Her children were starving to death and that didn't kick in. I don't know. That's brutal. If you're the child and you've watched her tend to all of these people, but then she can't tend to,

Hawa:

Is she not even realizing her own malnutrition at this point? Like the only reason she's even able to be alive is because Katniss is out going out there and making sure that she has what she needs for her and for Primrose. And it's just also having to be like, well, my mama here too, so you go < laugh > . I mean, she cares for her mother of course, but like, she also probably resents her in that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

Well, did it, did it take a while for her mom to start being the healer? Like, I, I wonder if one, like if it was kind of like Katniss keeping them going for a bit, that then she kind of realized like, Katniss has this figured out or like, has this handled rather, I think

Hannah:

She had an Alchemist background, is that right? Am I remembering that correctly? When before she came to district, I'm trying to

Heather:

Remember. She was from district 12, but she was from the town. Right. District . 'cause like , like Peeta's dad was in love with Katniss's mom. Mm-Hmm.

Hannah:

The fancier part, not the , um,

Heather:

She was the merchant class basically instead of the peasants.

:

Right.

Hannah:

They don't move between districts.

Heather:

No.

:

Yeah.

Heather:

She just chose to be with a miner instead of the baker.

:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

And then had a tougher life accordingly, but didn't seem bothered by that. It was just, once she lost him she just completely turned off. And I don't know, I, the reading that part again just really reminded me of um, what happens with the mother in the books in Cynthia Voight's homecoming series.

:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

Where she just shuts down and, and then Dicey the child has to Right. Become the parent and the provider and everything. It's hard to read anything about a child that young being so parentified. It's really tough.

Hannah:

It's too much for a kid.

Heather:

This may be the first time we've had a book where we've seen a child who is not an orphan and it's not a bad parent. Like not an actively bad parent like in Matilda, but it's,

Hawa:

It's bad in a neglectful

Heather:

Way. It's uh , she's basically an orphan. Yeah. You know, but her mom is still there. Which is, yeah. It's really tough

Speaker 1:

Because that kid is probably looking at their parent like, you're here. Like why is me being here not enough for you to just want to do better for me? So I think in a way like Katniss's resilience can make her a role model in a sense.

Heather:

Can we circle back to that real quick? Because on the like feminism part, we're saying, okay, she's in survival mode, but Katniss is really not coded feminine in any of the stereotypical ways. Mm-Hmm. like she very much fits more the tomboy trope, but when she gets into the arena, they have her play. And throughout the trilogy they have her play this like role of like girly girl, oh I'm, you know, giggling because Peeta's in love with me and oh I have this beautiful dress that is really against type for her, but she, she's able at least on some level to use that to her advantage though she does seem to struggle with it at times. Mm - Hmm..And I think that's kind of an interesting dichotomy because yes, her resilience and her like being able to hunt and her being able to take on the role of provider and these sort of like historically masculine coded activities is really critical to her survival. But then actually the playing the girly girl and the Juliet of this pair is just as critical to her survival because it's what it's learning to play that game, right. Not just the fighting part of the Hunger Games, but the game that's outside of the game, which is get the sponsors, get people to invest in your story and to do that she has to like girl it up in this way. That's really uncomfortable for her. I, I'm not sure, I'm not sure what Suzanne Collins is trying to say with that, but I do think it's interesting.

Hawa:

Definitely kind of gives like, I'm not like the other girls. She's like, yeah the other girls had time to kinda like look at the guys and like care about them and so like that and she's like, I'm just out here trying to survive 'cause my mom's not really doing nothing to take care of me and my sister. So she didn't have time to really think about those childish quote unquote childish things I guess like, you know, look crushes and all that. Mm-Hmm.

Hannah:

in the training, they made a point about some of, some of the tributes are just going for the, the weapons training. But they made a point of pointing out that u m, like the camouflage and the punting for plants and the learning how to weave nets, like how important that is to survival as well. Which I feel like those are traits are kind of coded as feminine and those are used like successfully for survival, at least survival to a point for some of the tributes.

:

Mm - Hmm. By Peeta and Katniss in addition to like the ones you mentioned, like getting the sponsors and playing into the narrative that the viewers want. It's

Speaker 1:

Really

Speaker 3:

Sal give

Speaker 2:

Them a show. I think it's interesting to note that, that it's not just the um, the killing attributes.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. And I think, I think Suzanne was trying to kind of strike a balance too. 'cause I feel like very often I think she attributed a lot of goodness to her sister. And her sister was the healer, the nurture, the much like nicer person. Like all of these traditionally like feminine qualities. And it was almost like she was saying like she should get to continue on and like live her life and she placed a lot of value on those skillsets that she feels like Prim holds. That she doesn't herself

Darlene:

Oh's an interesting, that's an interesting take on that. I think I had always kind of thought this is dark, but I think I had always thought that Katniss felt like Prim still had hope, which was something that she could never have after her experience. So if one of them was going to die, it made more sense for it to be her anyways because she had no hope of anything being good or better or , um,

Speaker 4:

I, yeah. And maybe that's also just me taking like how I've seen that play out maybe in other forms of like literature or pop culture in general. But I guess I attribute to like having hope as a very like, feminine quality female character that tends to be like very helpful.

:

Yeah. Which is interesting though because in this book Peeta is the one that's like that. Right? That's true. Yeah .

Heather:

So like Katniss, I, this sort of gets into the next book too, but, you know, Katniss very much realizes at some point that she and Haymitch are more kindred spirits in terms o f, o f their personalities and this darkness that's always gonna be inside them. Mm-Hmm. v ersus Peeta who can still hope. I mean this gets back to the terrible epilogue 'cause I think it even like literally said that. Mm- H mm. Um , b ut yeah, and Peeta is the one that is the painter. He's the baker. He, he tends to have these more female coded lot of soft skills. Right. Like he's good at reading a social situation. Yeah. He is n ot like a brute strength guy out there bludgeoning everyone. He's Yeah. In t here t rying to play the social game. Yeah. That's that's interesting. And I guess she was like watching a lot of Survivor too. You can kind of see in the way. So l ike people, how do people play the game? You know? And y ou have the people that are just like a physical specimen and just, you know, that

Speaker 1:

Is such an interesting combo.

Speaker 3:

The Finn being the Ozzy of the Hunger Games and catching fire and like, I don't know who that makes Peeta < laugh > Peeta's poverty or something. < laugh > .

Darlene:

Does anyone remember if Katniss has ever fell into like that discussion that people would have about like being a Mary Sue character? 'cause I didn't feel it interesting in this reread, but I don't remem I can't remember if she was one of those that people are just like,

Speaker 3:

I don't think she's likable enough. I think that's part of the

Speaker 4:

Criticism.

Speaker 3:

I I think that's part of maybe why she isn't regarded in that way.

:

Okay. . As much. But I don't know. Um, she's not a person that I've heard brought up as a Mary Sue.

Hannah:

I haven't heard that discussion either. But it looks like Hawa is researching.

:

Did you discover anything interesting?

Hawa:

Reddit says Katniss is not a Mary Sue. She has trust issues in favor survival over anything else. Also in Mockingjay for some parts of the books for , uh, some parts of the book, she completely shuts down while a Mary Sue would not be affected. And

Hannah:

Her eyes aren't purple <laugh>?

Heather:

No. She she has gray eyes. Gray eyes from the Seam.

Speaker 4:

Okay. 'cause I was gonna say like, I, I didn't, I'm trying to remember think she fell into that kind of character where it was kind of like a little too perfect or Mm - Hmm. picked up on things too perfectly. 'cause yeah, we see her like struggle a lot with certain things, especially like Heather said, um, especially when she had to like perform these like softer sides, like this femininity that she wasn't quite used to.

Speaker 3:

The whole thing starts to fall apart once you look too closely at the actual < laugh > fighting in the games because Peeta would not have survived his mortal thigh wound,

Speaker 10:

Just a flesh wound

Speaker 3:

Where he is now been like lying in mud. You know, there's, there's certainly a lot of like Deus ex Machina save the, the people at the right time. Yeah. Um, and a sort of lack of realism with the wounds that people survive. I think this gets even worse than catching fire. Maybe when they're describing like when they're, when they watch the previous Quarter Quell and it's like Haymitch has been disemboweled and it's like, it's like, okay, now this is not realistic < laugh > at this point. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I do think when it comes to wounds, she's not, I hate to say it, but for poor Rue's death, you have to win.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Poor,

Hannah:

It should not have happened that quickly. Should have been real slow and real awful. Not that it wasn't awful enough, but like it was a belly wound. < laugh > .

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Hannah:

Those don't have, those are awful and they are slow < laugh > .

Speaker 3:

And then Peeta who is cut to the bone, she says on the Yeah. The thigh. You have major arteries, like people bleed out from thigh wounds really fast.

Hannah:

I suppose it could have somehow missed, but < laugh > it's, it's questionable. I I I'm just like, it all seems very hand wavy to me.

:

No, She wanted her, she wanted her magical, magical medicines to just do the do. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4:

She, she relied a lot on like the , um, Capitol's technology and how advanced they were. Like they just sent her medicine Mm - Hmm. . And all of a sudden she's like, fine.

Hannah:

The magic little parachute. Yeah. Yeah. Potions.

Heather:

So we talked about, we talked about Rue a little bit. I was wondering if we could kind of like circle back to her , um, just about like how did y'all feel about , um, their alliance that they built and um, about Rue's character? Like, I don't know, like, it, well I guess this isn't y'all first time reading it, but like, if it was your first time reading it, were you, like the first time you read it, were you shocked that it came about? Like do you feel like It was inevitable? Oh, I cried about Rue.

:

Mm - Hmm. But I saw it coming from a mile away. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I think it was telegraphed early that like, this is gonna go so poorly and, and you knew she's not gonna have Katniss kill Rue. Like, which would've been,

Hannah:

Unforgivable

Heather:

They had made it, that's what the situation would've been. And, and you can't make that work. So you knew it had to come at someone else's hand. Yeah. And then I think Rue's an interesting little character. Um, I like how often she draws the, like, parallels with Kane's sister, with them being the same age and like her viewing them as having like real strength in fragility.

:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

Like, they're both very slight. They're small, but they're both very strong people. And I think that that's a nice message to send. I mean, Katniss is herself is not a large person at all. She has described as being kind of scrawny and small and Mm-Hmm.. So I, I do like that. I love the character of Thresh just this time 12 e

Speaker 11:

Far ru

Speaker 3:

Which is Rue's counterpart.

:

Mm - Hmm.

Heather:

from their district. Yeah. I love him so much.

:

Yeah. I wish we had seen more of him.

Hannah:

< laugh > . Yeah. We get so little. We just get him for like one scene basically.

Heather:

Yeah. But I love the idea of this guy that's out there in this unwinnable game who is still like adhering to his own honor code. Mm-Hmm. . Like, there's something very powerful about that to me. Um, so I would've loved to know more about him and his background. Like we get enough about Rue that she seems more fleshed out as a character. But I think there was something really interesting there about Thresh and I need to find some fanfic about Thresh I guess because

Hannah:

I'm sure it exists <> .

Speaker 1:

Right. And I think it's just so I love that they showed like some kind of like solidarity between the districts. Like how the dis district , district 11 sends her the bread and you know how he

Speaker 4:

And she knows it must have been. Um , yes. And then that was a callback. Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1:

No, yeah, no, that's pretty much was what I was gonna say. I just, I just love to see that and I love that little detail about how , how she knew it was from them. Because Peeta mentioned it earlier about the bread, like Yeah . I think that's the thing with everything being from her point of view, is that you don't really get to know about the people who she's not interacting with to that level. Like there's no way she, we would've known more about Thresh because she barely interacted with him outside of like seeing him when they're coming up and , um, when she's, when yeah. When he saves her, when he spares her life. I guess <laugh>,

Speaker 3:

I do think the book does a good job though. That's a really interesting point about, it's all through her lens, but I do feel like a lot of these lesser characters, you do get some interesting understanding of them as like people, like I feel like Foxface is pretty well developed.

Hawa:

Foxface < laugh >.

:

and it's, it's, it's through Katniss's like in interpretation of like, oh, she's doing these clever things.

Hannah:

We don't even get any dialogue, but we have a good sense of her.

Heather:

No, nothing. We, but we see how she runs and we see how she operates in the game. And like Katniss's interpretation of that. We don't get that about the careers. Like we, we get a whole lot of nothing about this. Even like robots

Speaker 1:

Basically.

:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

They're killing robots.

Speaker 3:

They're super, super flat. Yeah.

Speaker 4:

And they're also like, I mean the characters themselves are also like extensions of their districts. Mm - Hmm. in a sense too. So it's like you kind of do get a better sense of like the people, even though, again, because it's limited through Katniss's eyes, you don't know what the other districts really are like, because all she's ever known is her own district and what you know about the Capitol and what you know about the games. But I, I do think that Suzanne does a good job of getting us an idea of how each district is by the people that they send.

Heather:

Does she get a little too literal with that though? Because Oh my god, the names.

:

Yes. < laugh > . I, the names in this book kill me < laugh > .

Speaker 3:

Like ,

Speaker 2:

Well, and

Speaker 3:

Okay, you named the Baker's kid. Pita

Speaker 12:

Fajita Peter . I love saying it.

Speaker 2:

I know, right.

Hawa:

Wait, I don't get it.

Speaker 2:

Peter Pita ,

Speaker 13:

This is not the Arabic thing. Pita

Speaker 12:

Bread. Fajita Pita . This is a pita . Peter . Peter . None be

Speaker 14:

Afraid of there just bread. Peter really fresh up .

Speaker 15:

Peter

Hannah:

Like , <laugh> <laugh> . She's like, what should I name him? She looks over her kitchen.

Speaker 3:

I'll just spell it a little differently. It's fine.

Hannah:

They'll never figure it out. See

Speaker 1:

I was just thinking like Peter, but Peter like, wow. Yeah.

Speaker 4:

And Rue is a plant I didn't even think about . And she did . I didn't think about that one.

Speaker 2:

Plants

Speaker 3:

<laugh> . Yes. And then Thresh. 'cause they're from the districts that Kane deals

Speaker 2:

With Point ,

Heather:

Right? Grainne . Yes. It's , but it's a made up plant. And I'm sorry, Katniss is such an annoying name. It's way too close to Catnip and it's just

Speaker 2:

<laugh> .

Speaker 1:

Gale was onto something <laugh>.

Hannah:

So going back to Rue for a second. Um, her death and her extreme youth. 'cause she's 12, right? Mm-Hmm . Like, she's like the youngest.

Speaker 3:

She's the youngest. Possible tribute's a baby .

Speaker 2:

Yeah. You , you can be to be selected. What is it like, it's like 12 through 18. Yes , yes . Like heard like, you know, this is, it just sort of, well you're 12, you can be selected at 12 and you can die a horrible death. Like it just sort of underscores it's extra awful when it's a 12-year-old. Not that you were on the Capitol side before that happened, but it really draws like a dark red underline to it. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 3:

<affirmative> speaking of that, do you think that there is enough shade in how people from the Capitol are drawn? You know , I think it certainly can be read as a real indictment of the people of the Capitol that they view this as entertainment. Which I think, given what Collins said, inspired, this is a real indictment of all of us for enjoying Survivor and <laugh> watching the 24 hour news cycle on, on the Iraq war. But do we think that she kind of lets some of the Capitol folks off the hook too easily? Like with the stylists Mm-Hmm . and the prep teams. And again, I think this gets more drawn out through the course of the three books. Or do we think that that's the right way to portray it where there's more nuance and like, yes, they're doing this but it's a cultural thing and like they're not getting how bad this is and they're really nice people once you get to know them. I don't know. I feel some sort of a way about how t h e people, people from the Capitol are depicted. But I, I don't really know where I fall on this, so I'm kind of interested in Yeah,

Speaker 4:

I think I feel the same way. Like conflicted in the same way. Because similarly like Yeah, with the stylist I think you're like overextending your like, like you're overextending some sort of grace and you're saying like, well this is the only life he's ever known. Like to him he's just excited to like be able to design for, you know, these kids that might be killed essentially. But then at the same time you think about the average viewer and the people that like watch it on a big screen and um, like have the money to send support and then you're just like, irrationally angry again. Or not irrationally 'cause it's pretty messed up. But yeah, I'm like, I don't know where necessarily to fall, but I think, I think it makes sense that she did it that way because it's true. Some, some of these people have only ever known that life and you can say like they're all, it's hard to say that they're all inherently bad people if this is the only life they've ever known.

Heather:

Well and I think we see Cinna is trying to actively rebel in some sense. He's not just trying to keep her alive. Right. He is actually actively working with Haymitch and Peeta. 'cause Katniss is kind of out of the loop, but at the same time he benefits from being the stylist with the victor as well. So it's, you know, the motivation there is muddy. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 1:

<affirmative> . Do you feel like, because this, because this was his first year, right? Do you feel like it being his first year kind of plays a role into like maybe how possibly one could say naive? He, he might be in thinking that he could possibly make some kind of change

Heather:

That it absolves him? I mean spoilers, I think his ultimate death. Death, yeah. <laugh> in defiance of the Capitol is what absolves him. But in this book, I think it's murky. Yeah.

Speaker 4:

I guess whoever put Katniss and Prim's relationship, I guess, what were you thinking of getting?

Speaker 1:

I mean, honestly I feel like we kind of, we kind of touched on it. I mean, hey, I mean I pay , I volunteer a tribute when they pull that name. I mean that really, I feel like that really just goes to show like how much she cares for her sister. And she always talks about like, I like reading the book from her perspective because you kind of hear her like random thoughts about things in a way that they probably would've struggled to show in the movie. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . But like, you hear her talk about like, or think about how people just tolerate her and people like really adore and love Prim And like she, you know, people want to take care of her and that she figured Prim was gonna be good even if she was gone.

Heather:

I think we do need to at least address Team Peeta and Team Gale because < laugh > , that was a huge thing when this book came out. <laugh>, where does everybody fall on that spectrum and why?

Hawa:

Okay, so I might be a little biased from having seen the movies because the guy who plays Gale's kind of hot

Speaker 3:

<laugh> and the guy that plays Peeta is really short and not how he's described in the book

Speaker 4:

<laugh> . Yeah.

Heather:

What is going on there? That casting was bad. Seems like a very nice man. But that was bad casting. He doesn't match the description at all. Yeah,

Speaker 4:

I, were they trying to go I guess for like, the kindness?

Speaker 3:

I have no idea what they were trying to go for. I think it was probably just some contract they had with that actor. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> .

Hannah:

I , I know people who thought that the guy actor played Peeta was very cute. You know,

The Dude:

That's just like , uh, your opinion, Man.

Hannah:

So I don't know. <laugh>, your mileage may vary. I I don't really have strong opinions of that either way. I, I honestly think Katniss doesn't have time for a relationship. She's literally trying to survive <laugh> . So I, I I I'm like team nobody team Katniss. Like, can you just like give that girl like a cabin in the woods, a place To stay and some food and like security and then maybe she can think about dating. I kind of wanna tape in 20 years. It's so if she wants, I don't know .

Hawa:

It's so funny that like just this fake kisses happening on TV and it's like, but what would Gale be thinking about this at home? Girl? She trying to survive like

Speaker 3:

<laugh> . Well, don't

Speaker 2:

Worry about what Gale's

Speaker 3:

Thinking about . No. And and Gale's thinking a lot about it at home, which is not a good look for Gale. You know, like, yeah. I don't know. I , and I think it gets even worse as the books go on, but like, at least initially with this, like, I don't dig that Peter fell in love with someone he doesn't know. He did not know her. It's a girl he interacted with basically. Not at all.

Speaker 2:

He gave her some bread and he saw her in the hallway,

Speaker 3:

Never spoke to her. Nothing. I mean,

Speaker 4:

Can you say, well, I mean, can you say that he at least fell in love with the idea of her, like the her survi , like her survival space

Heather:

And like Yes, but I hate, I hate that. Yeah. Like, I don't know, people are not ideas. Yeah . You know, the idea of somebody is not real and it doesn't seem like he caress that much to get to know her. Beyond that. He just has in his head like, oh, you have no idea the effect you have on people. Okay. But you , you can't even articulate what that is because you don't know anything about her.

Speaker 4:

Do you wish that was

Speaker 1:

I've spoken to her in the how many years ? Sorry,

Speaker 3:

<laugh> . Yeah. I, I don't like that. At least Gale knew her as a human being. That's true. So like, it was a more considered feeling. But yeah. Then Gale just , uh, come on guy. Like, so many issues with Gale too . Like leave this poor girl alone. She was not feeling it.

Hannah:

She's, she is so bad at trusting people, understandably that like every time like Peeta interacts with her, she's like, what is he doing? I don't understand. She's like, oh, he's trying to be kind. Like I'm just like <laugh>. She doesn't, she's not ready for any of this . Yes . No . Like she is busy. She is very stressed. She is very traumatized. Let her be

Heather:

Poor thing. She's just constantly being manipulated by people like she is everyone's pawn. That they're kind of moving around for their own reasons. And it's not on a romantic sense, but I think I said this earlier, team Haymitch because at least she really sees her for who she is.

Speaker 17:

Um, embrace the probability of your imminent death

Speaker 3:

And has a respect for her even if it's begrudging and they fight a lot. But he sees,

Speaker 2:

He's honest with her.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Mm-Hmm . He sees her as a human being. That con that contains the flaws that she has. It's not just this idea of her. Um ,

Speaker 2:

And

Speaker 4:

I thought that's where I would go. I thought she would become some like a

Speaker 3:

Loner. You she would get together with Haymitch

Speaker 4:

<laugh> . No , no , no . She would be a Haymitch. Like a loner.

Speaker 3:

Yes, exactly. That . She would be like a really damaged person because that's

Speaker 2:

What she living

Speaker 3:

In her victor house. That's

Speaker 1:

Not what she says she wants though. Right. Like she says that she doesn't see herself. She says she's like even emerging from this as a victor, I would not want to have children because they would still have to put their name in.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no. She just wants to go live at that little house that she and Gale found a shack at the lake. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . Yeah. And be left alone. Like which, and I thought they would Seems reasonable to me. Yeah. Can't

Speaker 2:

Blame

Speaker 4:

Her . Yeah. I thought they would make it more explicit. Like, 'cause I also, I think even when I first read it, I was like, well how does pet really know her enough to like love her? I thought they would make that explicit, but they never did.

Speaker 3:

He loved her because she was hungry. Like, I mean that's it. He saw her foraging for the thrown away bread scraps and fell for her because she didn't just die. I mean it

Hawa:

Maybe he has some kind of like savior, savior complex like

Speaker 3:

Yeah . Peeta out here. White knighting everything in a really gross way. Yeah.

Hannah:

That's how you feel toward like the abandoned kittens you find <laugh> . He's not like a romantic relationship. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I don't know. I mean I guess he does get to know her by the end of things, but like he certainly doesn't when he sets this whole thing in motion with her and he certainly doesn't to the degree that he has any Right. To be like annoyed with her for not engaging on that same level honestly with him

Speaker 2:

National television.

Speaker 3:

So manipulative.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And like okay fine. He thought that that might be the thing that would save her because she's unlikable. But now she's likable because I like her and like the girl everyone wants is the girl everyone wants. So if I say like I want her, then everyone will want her. All

Speaker 1:

Of a sudden she's desirable.

Speaker 3:

Ugh. Yeah. That's kind of rough. The romance in these books doesn't really work for me.

Hannah:

It's very pasted on.

Speaker 3:

And I will say again, spoilers for later books, we kind of see this happen again with Annie and Finnick where you get the sense that Finnick fell in love with Annie because she's damaged and because he pities her, which is Oh I, I don't like that message.

Speaker 4:

I do feel like this, this kind of speaks to a certain age of why a fiction and even like in TV shows of like Yeah that's

Speaker 3:

A really good point. This

Speaker 4:

Sort of like pair where one person has to balance out the other person. I felt like that's very much what Katniss and Peeta were. Right. And like we've already talked about like how they're very different from one another but you know, he's supposed to like soften her edges and like bring her closer towards the middle, towards like still hoping and continuing on. Um, and that message is really important past this book. And that's why it has to be Peeta and it can't be Gale who actually progressively goes more like extreme.

Speaker 3:

Extreme.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, exactly.

Hannah:

I guess it's an improvement on Twilight

Speaker 3:

<laugh>. I mean much everything as a improvement on Twilight.

Speaker 2:

We

Speaker 1:

Should, we should hate read

Speaker 3:

Twilight. Oh God . Yeah, that's true. And I think that during this general time we saw a lot of this type of relationship in teen centered stuff. I mean Buffy, we have real similar, oh bro Angel, well he's the gale , right? He really does know her and understand her. But this is an a toxic relationship versus like O'Reilly who's like the nice guy who's gonna smooth out her rough edges and like she doesn't need any of you fools like <laugh>

Speaker 4:

<laugh> .

Speaker 3:

She's just trying to survive.

:

Y eah. You know, and yeah team, nobody,

Speaker 1:

I mean honestly now that we've talked through this, agreed .

Hannah:

And like Buffy for Katniss death. Death was her gift. <laugh>

Heather:

<laugh> , she saved the world a lot. <laugh> and died for her little sister <laugh> . Yeah . But then not quite <laugh> because the Capitol let them both win. What do we think of that kind of climax where Katniss is like, fine, we'll both die, you know? Mm-Hmm. Do we think that that was ingenious? Do we think she was smart enough to know that that was putting the Capitol in a bind that they couldn't undo? Yes. You think she was manipulating?

Speaker 1:

Yes , because in that section she says they have to have a victor. Right. So I think she knew that, you know, them trying to take the berries would them off to the point of them off for not having a victor. So I think she kind of, she thought kind of quick on her feet with that one.

Speaker 3:

So you view that as a, a definite attempt to save them not as a definite eff you to the Capitol. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, okay. I think it was an attempt to save them and an eff you to the Capitol. Like it was kind of like a, like a , I know your game you, you thought you had, you thought you played um, you thought you had something up on me, but now I got something up on you and it had happened to save them but also it was kind of just like a Yeah, no. 'cause later on you see that she's towards the end you see that she's very worried about like what life is gonna look like for them afterwards because she realizes that they are upset about her making that move and basically outsmarting them.

Speaker 4:

She has to be told that though, right? Yes. Yes . Like someone told her that, that that's what they were

Speaker 3:

Doing and that's where I feel like she was running on spite there and Okay. Got to the right answer. Like that was the solution. That was,

Speaker 4:

That was it. I thought she was gonna let it go either way. I think she, she was like, maybe she was like maybe that

Speaker 3:

It saves us or maybe we both die but then screw you capital you don't get your victor. Yeah . Okay.

Speaker 4:

Fair. I mean 'cause she's lived through these, right? So she knows how important a victor is to parade around, you know? Yeah. Like kinda keep the momentum going. Like she knows like what it takes for people to like really be into the games. They need that Victor, they need kind of that like celebration afterward. I do think she took a gamble, but it did remind me of what Heather had said earlier that maybe it was on spite too .

Heather:

Hannah. Did you think it was a

Hannah:

Yeah, I think it was uh , I think it was calculated but I think she was potentially prepared to die if they called her bluff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah . She's just like, well I've been through all this. I ain't got much to go back home to . Like

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I , I think also, I think part of it was also probably feeling like she made that decision for herself as opposed to like agency somebody agency . Exactly . Yeah. Like I am going to die. Not someone killed me.

Speaker 2:

Die in her own terms. Yep .

Speaker 1:

Y'all know we love a good quiz. So today's quiz brought to us by a Buzzfeed, the way you perform in this Hunger Games, quote unquote stimulation. Stimulation. We'll determine which district you're from. They said stimulation, not me. I want y'all to know that I can read <laugh> . That's just what was on here. So your name was just called up the reaping. How do you feel? Terrified. Nervous. But I trained for this. I was hoping they would call my name or it wasn't. I've volunteered actually I'm personally going with terrified. Um ,

Speaker 4:

Same,

Speaker 2:

Same <laugh>

Speaker 4:

Although the nervous. But I was trained for This is really interesting 'cause that means you're already picturing yourself in another

Speaker 3:

District . <laugh> one , two, or four. Um, I don't know. I could see myself stupidly volunteering.

Speaker 1:

Ooh .

Speaker 3:

It would depend on who it was. But like I think I would totally do a cat nest if it was someone I loved that I was

Speaker 1:

You're on the train to the Capitol. What are you eating? Lots of meat, pastries, sugar, straight from the container. I'm too upset to eat. Uh ,

Speaker 3:

I have never been too upset to eat. I don't think <laugh> . Right .

Speaker 1:

But also like pastries.

Speaker 3:

I would probably say that

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Heather:

I like meat more but like I feel like I'd be trying to carbload <laugh> before the events.

Hannah:

Those are my four choices. < laugh > ?

Speaker 4:

Yeah. I wish it was just like any and everything that I want but yeah . Yeah . I went with pastries.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It's very like last meal kind of thing . You better eat it all.

Hannah:

I'm gonna go with lots of meat. I don't like getting these options . But <laugh> ,

Speaker 1:

It's time for Caesar's show. What's your strategy to strategy? To gain support, show off my physical looks, show my strength and bravery. Try to be funny. I'm just going to be me. I'm just gonna be me 'cause I'm probably too terrified to try to do anything else. <laugh>

Speaker 3:

I guess I would try to be funny 'cause I don't think these other things would work. <laugh> and I try something <laugh> .

Speaker 4:

So for like show off my physical looks. It's like showing how like

Speaker 1:

Basically like yeah . You know you're hot and you're gonna make that work for you.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. You're gonna fi it Glimmer. So you get a lot of

Speaker 4:

Oh , okay . Got it .

Speaker 3:

Sponsors.

Speaker 4:

Okay, I'm gonna put, I'm just going to be me and hope that that works in my favor. <laugh>,

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna try to be funny.

Speaker 1:

Time to train. What are you working on? Weapon, weaponry skills. Camouflage, studying past games, mastering technology. I would probably say I feel like studying past games is the first thing that came to mind. So I'm gonna go with that.

Speaker 4:

I feel like I need to train on all these things. I know. I'm just like, which one should

Speaker 3:

Should, I'll say worthwhile.

Speaker 2:

I need to split my time at all. The stations. <laugh>.

Speaker 4:

I guess I'll do weaponry skills.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, same here.

Speaker 3:

Yeah , I, I would probably be studying past games, but that would be with an eye towards knowing what to focus on. Yeah . At the station. So that's kinda because

Speaker 1:

Like you're not just, just realistically speaking, you're not gonna spend all your time on just one section.

Speaker 3:

You know what, I guess I would do studying past games and I would be trying to figure out the mentors, like what their strategy was and assuming they would coach their tributes in that way. Mm-Hmm. and hope that that would give me insight about them. I guess.

Speaker 1:

What is your weapon of choice? Ax, bow and arrows. Knife or a Trident. A Trident. Is that what like

Speaker 3:

Three thought a side ?

Speaker 1:

Was that <crosstalk> ?

Speaker 3:

<laugh> .

Speaker 1:

I don't think I'm gonna go with , um, a knife.

Speaker 4:

I just don't think I could do anything that requires like a short distance. So I feel like if I could master it, I would do bow and arrow.

Speaker 3:

Same. I don't think a melee weapon is going to be my friend,

Speaker 1:

You know? That's a good point though. But I feel like, so I think with the, the knife, I feel like the knife could help me with like killing animals and, mm-hmm . Survival in other ways besides just hurting someone. But I'm like an ax or a trident that feels like a lot to kind of carry around.

Speaker 3:

Well the trident in theory you could throw it like a spear, but I don't, I I don't see that being a particularly great ranged weapon for me. Ax actually seems pretty useful to me. But again that's a, that's a rough way to, to fight. So I'll, I'll do bow and arrows and assume that I am really hiding and going for range shots.

Hannah:

Do any of these come with proficiency? Is my question

Speaker 3:

<laugh> ? Yeah , I guess it

Speaker 2:

Really changes your strategy. <laugh> ,

Speaker 3:

We get two days of training on the Capitol <laugh>

Speaker 2:

Because bow and arrows is really hard if you don't know how to use them. It is, they are much harder than they seem like they would be.

Speaker 1:

So I think we're gonna assume yes. That you'd be good at it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think we have to assume we have some amount of skill.

Hannah:

Alright. It's between bow and arrow and axe. I guess with bow and arrow, assume I know how to use them, which I don't in real life. <laugh> I wanna go for an act, but I don't want enough upper body strength for that to be practical.

Speaker 1:

Which district tributes are you going to form an alliance with District 11 and 12. Agriculture and mining. District one and four. Luxury and fishing district two and seven. Masonry and lumber or district 10 and three. Livestock and technology. Personally I'm going with , uh, 10 and

Heather:

Three. Same. I do want to talk for a moment about how like the map of Panem makes no sense. <laugh> at all. <laugh> ,

Speaker 2:

It really doesn't.

Speaker 3:

Like District 12 works fine. It's West Virginia, you know, it is coal mining territory. None of the rest of this makes any sense.

Speaker 2:

10 and three for me as well.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, did everyone already answer? Yes. Yeah,

Speaker 3:

I think we all went with the same way. The

Speaker 1:

Games have just begun. What are you hoping to get in the initial rush? My weapon of choice. A bag with supplies, rope and medicine. I'm running away. Um, I'm running away.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. I think because we've read the books and we know that it's also like a killing spree.

:

Yeah. That early on it's like, yeah, I think I'm

Speaker 3:

<crosstalk> , but the stuff that's further out is the less like, desirable stuff. Like the Yeah . In the cornucopia stuff is the like weapon of choice kind of thing. You

Speaker 2:

Could probably run away and snag something. Not

Speaker 3:

Super desirable. Not super high value. Yeah. Wouldn

Speaker 2:

Be like, you could like sprint and grab

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I feel like bag of supplies and open medicine wouldn't be like Yeah . In deep in the cornucopia. Oh,

Speaker 2:

Okay. I'm going with bag of supplies. I think I can do that and sprint away. I'll go

Speaker 4:

With rope and medicine.

Hannah:

Well, they go for like the fancy stuff at the center.

Speaker 1:

What's your strategy in the area? Hide until I'm the last one left.

Speaker 4:

That's mine. <laugh>

Speaker 1:

Start

Speaker 4:

<laugh> .

Speaker 3:

Stop

Speaker 1:

Taking you down to people early and get the numbers down fast. Gain the high ground. Try to figure out the capital's tricks. Hide until I'm the last one left. Yep . Y'all I'm a I'm a Wiss .

Speaker 4:

Yeah , <laugh> . I mean, I think that way too, but it, it's similar to like gain the high ground, right? Like during the, in the course of the book the Capitol wants they

Speaker 2:

Flush you out ,

Speaker 4:

So Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. They're gonna like thin trackerjackers or fire at you.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I think I'm gonna try to figure out the capital's tricks.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna try to hide even though it's probably not gonna happen.

Speaker 1:

My turn, right? Mm-Hmm, Okay, sorry. Um, what will you get dropped in by supporters drinking water? Medicine? Food or a weapon?

Speaker 3:

I feel like everyone's going to need medicine at some point.

Speaker 1:

That's what I was gonna say. Medicine for myself.

Speaker 4:

Well is it, is it like, I wonder if the question is also kind of like how likable would you be to the supporters that they would get you some of the more like, expensive things.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah. So then I probably wouldn't get this <laugh> they have , lemme die

Speaker 4:

'cause it took a lot for them to get enough or I think the

Speaker 3:

Burn

Speaker 4:

Medicine. Yeah.

Heather:

I'll say drinking water. I feel like they would like me enough that they would think dehydration was a boring death. So maybe water

Speaker 4:

<laugh> Yeah,

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna go with food.

Speaker 4:

I think I'll go with food as well.

Speaker 1:

Okay. And the last question you won, what's the first thing you want to do now that it's over celebrate with pa with other past victors from the district. Provide for my family and friends with my winnings. Give some of my winnings to my fallen allies family And speak out against the Capitol. Eat and sleep. Um, eat and sleep.

Hannah:

Why is drink not an option? Yeah.

Speaker 1:

<laugh> , right? <laugh>

Speaker 2:

We've seen Haymitch <laugh> .

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Heather:

Realistically I would probably run my mouth off and get in trouble. So I guess I'm speaking out against the Capitol.

Speaker 2:

I'm putting eat and sleep.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. I'm gonna provide for my friends and family, but obviously like I, it would also deeply affect my psyche. <laugh> .

Hawa:

Right? Like I wouldn't be in a rush to do that. Like I'm gonna do it, but I like, can I sleep first? I'm hungry.

Speaker 3:

I

Speaker 1:

I'm from district two.

Speaker 3:

Me too.

Hawa:

The district of Masonry. You probably grew up as a career. Someone from a rich background and trained endlessly for the games and volunteered. You'll probably have the best outfits out of the tributes. I don't know what I, what responses I gave that made them think too, but Okay. <laugh> .

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I

Speaker 1:

Feel like our responses were kind of different too. Yeah.

Darlene:

And I feel like mines makes more sense for you, Heather, but I got district 13. You are from district

Speaker 3:

Hiding in district 13

Speaker 2:

<laugh> .

Speaker 3:

She may or may not exist

Speaker 4:

<laugh> . Uh , but it says you're from district 13, the district of nuclear weaponry. You're not afraid to speak up for what you believe in and do what's right. You're more than likely the tribute who gets people to pay closer attention.

Hannah:

I'm from District 11, the district of agriculture. You're a great ally to have because you're resourceful, resourceful, loyal and honest. You're probably the tribute who everyone is hoping makes it to the end.

Heather:

What's up? Thresh,

Hannah:

<laugh> , <laugh> . I , I don't know. I'm dead. Dead . <laugh> . <laugh> . Poor Thresh.

Speaker 4:

Each episode we ask whether our book passes the Bechdel test. The Bechdel test asks whether a work features two female characters who talk to each other about something that doesn't involve men or boys. So does it pass?

Speaker 3:

No. Well or barely Maybe her and Rue. Yeah. They talk

Speaker 2:

About That's what I was food. They talk each other about food when they're starving. <laugh> .

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Maybe just barely,

Speaker 2:

Barely passes. They're like, what else can we eat when they're, you know, trying not to

Speaker 4:

But to fair . But to be fair , is it really like, you know, 'cause I feel like a lot of it is doesn't involve men or boys in a romantic sense, but it's like that's, they don't really, they talk about men also like in terms

Speaker 3:

Of strategy , but even when she's having like heartfelt conversations about herself, it's with a man typically.

Speaker 4:

Oh, that's

Speaker 3:

True. Like she's talking to SNA or she's talking to Haymitch or Caesar. Gale or, Mm-Hmm . Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Rue and Katniss talk about well it's arriving . Yeah.

Speaker 3:

They talk about what Rue does with the birds and like how that's a how they let each other know that it's quitting time.

:

Mm- H mm. At the orchard and stuff. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 2:

It's not, yeah, it's not a lot. Not a lot.

Speaker 3:

Which is weird for what we would consider like a pretty like badass female.

Heather:

Yeah. Character. Like you would expect this to be flying colors. But Sally Katniss is one of the only female characters that like really gets a whole lot. Mm-Hmm.

Hawa:

Well that's it for this episode of These Books Made Me join us next time when we'll discuss a frequently banned book by a modern literary master. If you think you know which book we're tackling next, drop us a tweet. We're @pgcmls on Twitter and #TheseBooksMadeMe.