These Books Made Me
These Books Made Me
Pride & Prejudice: Part 1
This episode we are taking a leisurely stroll through the gentle hills of Hertfordshire and the genteel romances of Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice. We're talking classics, love-hate relationships, £5,000 bachelors, loveless marriages, Mr. Bennet's zingers, and the cost of living index in Regency period England. Our most subplot-laden book yet produces our most complicated plot summary and we marvel at how Jane Austen kept all of these threads together without major editorial help. We have so much to say about Lizzie and Darcy and this very important book that we are breaking this episode into two parts. Just as you can love both Colin Firth and Matthew MacFayden's Mr. Darcy, so too can you love episodes 1 and 2 of our very chatty dance with Pride and Prejudice.
These Books Made Me is a podcast about the literary heroines who shaped us and is a product of the Prince George's County Memorial Library System podcast network. Stay in touch with us via Twitter @PGCMLS with #TheseBooksMadeMe or by email at TheseBooksMadeMe@pgcmls.info. For recommended readalikes and deep dives into topics related to each episode, visit out blog at https://pgcmls.medium.com/.
We cover a lot of ground in this episode. If you'd like to learn more about some of the topics we touch on, here's some links you might enjoy:
The crunchiest economic explanation of money in Pride and Prejudice we could find! https://jasna.org/publications-2/persuasions-online/vol36no1/toran/
The complicated Cassandra Austen: https://lithub.com/cassandra-austen-literary-arsonist-or-a-heroine-in-her-own-right/
Hi, I am Hawa.
Darlene:I'm Darlene.
Heather:I'm Heather. And this is our podcast, These Books Made me. Today we're going to be talking about the literary classic Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. Friendly warning. As always, this podcast contains spoilers. If you don't yet know whose marriage proposal gets rejected, proceed with caution. Just a heads up, we had some technical difficulties while recording this episode, so while initially we had a guest, she could not make it for our rerecording. However, we salvaged some audio, so we'll be interspersing it throughout this episode. We have a special guest this week. Could you introduce yourself?
Elizabeth:Hello everyone. My name is Elizabeth Ajunwa, former colleague of both Hawa and Darlene, but now I am serving as the director of the Betty Boyd Dittree Library and Research Center at the National Museum of Women in the Arts. Okay, so I guess I get to start< laugh>. So the first question, I guess is what did you all, what did this book mean to you?
Darlene:So this was a weird one for me cuz I feel like I should have read it earlier. I do remember it being on the curriculum for a lot of, like my peers in high school. I think most people like read it in 11th grade at the high school that I went to. But I, like none of my teachers chose it for their curriculum. And so I didn't actually read it until college. And I think I also, it made me like form like sort of negative opinions of it before I even read it. Like, I just assumed it was gonna be very boring< laugh>. I was like, oh, my, my teachers probably left it off because they thought it was gonna be boring or, you know, and I think, you know, we, I think at this point its reputation kind of precedes it. So I just thought, oh, it's just like a love story. So, you know, maybe that's why they didn't see any value in like, teaching it, because I didn't know anything else aside from the fact that it was like a romance book essentially. And so, again, yeah, I didn't read it until college, but I think that it worked out because, uh, that was the first time in a while that I finally had a female professor. So all of my like English teachers in high school were male. I think that it needed to be taught by a woman. Uh, so I think it worked out for the better that I didn't read it until college. And yeah, I really enjoyed it from the first read. And then I took another class that was specifically on Jane Austin and her novels. Um, and then reading it a second time, I feel like I was able to get like, a lot more subtext from it. And so it is one of those books that I do actually like revisiting. I'm not really much a reread, but I think with this book, with each reread, do you get something different? And I think that happened even, um, with reading it again for this podcast.
Hawa:I'm always the one who's never read the book, and that rings true in this case as well. This was my first time reading the book, but I did really enjoy it. It's funny because I've read, I think at least one or two retellings of Pride and Prejudice, but I've never actually read Pride and Prejudice. So I read it and now I'm ready to dive into the movies and this conversation as well. What about you, Elizabeth?
Elizabeth:I'll say the book means a lot to me.<laugh>, um, because I, it, the ch-, the character has my name, my name, the main character has my name< laugh>. So, so I always am very sensitive to char, to how characters that have my name are portrayed< laugh>. Um, and this character is, you know, interesting and spunky and the main love interest and, you know, so the book means a lot to me. You know, you all are already answering the question of if this was your first time reading it or not. And I've, I've probably read this book like at least two, three times, two, three times< laugh>. So in revisiting it, I just felt this lovely feeling of, uh, nostalgia,<laugh>,
Heather:Uh, this was not my first time reading this. I think I read this book for the first time when I was in middle school. I've read it a couple of times since then. Reading it again now was interesting. I don't think I've read it again since maybe college. And as an older person now, uh, I found Charlotte's Loveless, but Practical Marriage a lot more understandable Than I may be do when I was like 19< laugh>. Um, I was like, yeah, that's a smart move. And then I, I think there were some other things where people came off worse to me in the reread than I remembered them. And then other things were more charming than I remembered them. So it was kind of a, an interesting mix. But I, I enjoyed the book a lot again. Okay, we've got a plot summary, and this one's a doozy because there are 8 million characters and a bunch of things happening. Mr. Bingley has come to town with his annual income of 5,000 pounds, a lease on the local manor house and status, is the most eligible bachelor around. He's handsome. He has a rich, but ill-tempered best friend, socialite sisters, and he must be in need of a wife. The Bennetts have status but no money. However, they have five unmarried daughters, Jane, the kind and beautiful eldest,, Elizabeth, witty and feisty Mary, well, Mary's kind of a drag, but she practices piano a lot, Kitty silly, and a follower. And Lydia, a frivolous flirt. At a series of balls and social gatherings, Jane and Bingley fall for each other. In the meantime, the sullen and rather rude, Mr. Darcy offends Lizzie who gives as good as she gets and targets him frequently with witty and sharp commentary. A group of soldiers gets stationed in the local town, and one of them a Mr. Wickham catches Lizzie's eye and tells her that Mr. Darcy's terrible man who left him pennyless, just as it's looking like Jane should soon expect a proposal from Mr. Bingley, the whole party decamps and Mr. Bingley ghosts the Bennetts, a series of trials ensues for the Bennett family. Jane is off to London to recharge with her aunt and uncle, but she realizes that the Bingley sisters are snobs who never cared for her, and she never connects with Mr. Bingley. Lydia and Kitty are dejected when the soldiers are sent to Brighton and the objects of their flirtations disappear. Lizzie is proposed to by her obsequious cousin, Mr. Collins, to whom their estate is entailed due to the Bennetts having no sons. But she rejects him to the horror of her mother and delight of her father. Mr. Collins then proposes to Lizzie's best friend, Charlotte Lucas, and they move to Kent, where Lizzie pays them a visit. In Kent, Lizzie meets Mr. Collins' rather dreadful Patroness, Lady Catherine, who turns out to be Mr. Darcy's aunt. Mr. Darcy and his cousin Colonel Fitzwilliam are visiting Lady Catherine. Lizzie enjoys Colonel Fitzwilliams Company, but is horrified to learn that Mr. Darcy and the Bingley sisters took Mr. Bingley back to London to talk him out of proposing to Jane. The frequent visits to Lady Catherine's estate produce a series of encounters between Lizzie and Mr. Darcy, which end in a truly offensive and unexpected marriage proposal that Lizzie harshly rejects. Mr. Darcy writes Lizzie a letter explaining himself Mr. Wickham was a gambler and lush who attempted to elope with Mr. Darcy's 15 year old sister Georgiana. He does not apologize for interfering with Bingley and Jane explaining that he thought Jane didn't care for Bingley and he overheard some pretty gross conversations from Lizzie's family members concerning Bingley's wealth and Jane landing a rich man. Lizzie is ashamed and begins to rethink what she thought she knew about Darcy. Lizzie goes to visit her Aunt and Uncle Gardner and they go on a vacation to tour the countryside in Derbyshire where her aunt grew up in Lampton. On a lark, her aunt and uncle decide to take her to visit Pemberley Mr. Darcy's magnificent estate. Lizzie consents because Darcy is away and hears only glowing reports of his kindness and generosity from his servants. Darcy arrives unexpectedly and sees them at his home. He's kind and polite to Lizzie and her family inviting them to dine at the home and fish in his ponds. Lizzie meets Georgiana Darcy and it is clear that Mr. Darcy has told her only good things about Lizzie and the two hit off. Lizzie receives letters from Jane telling of a catastrophe. Lydia and Wickham have run off together to London, which will be ruinous for the family's good name. Lizzie is beside herself when Mr. Darcy comes calling and is worried about her distress. She tearfully tells him of Lydia and Wickham and she and her aunt and uncle depart for Longbourne Mr. Bennett and Mr. Gardner attempt to locate Wickham and Lydia in London. But failing that Mr. Bennett returns home leaving the matter to Mr. Gardner, the Bennetts receive a letter from their uncle saying he has located the couple and Wickham has agreed to marry Lydia at the cost of his debts being erased and 100 pounds per year. Lizzie fears that her uncle must have paid a huge sum to get Wickham to agree to this. Lydia returns to Longbourne and mentions that Mr. Darcy was at her wedding in learning this. Lizzie writes to her aunt and is told that Mr. Darcy was the one who paid Wickham for the marriage, 10,000 pounds, but did not want anyone to know. News that Mr. Bingley is returning to Netherfield reaches the Bennetts, and they are soon paid multiple visits by Mr. Bingley and Mr. Darcy. Mr. Bingley soon proposes to Jane and the family is thrilled. Unexpectedly, Lady Catherine shows up at Longbourne to bully Lizzie into telling her whether she's engaged to Darcy and then threatening her that Darcy is meant for Lady Catherine's daughter and she will convince Darcy not to marry Lizzie. Lizzie fights back and refuses to say she would not accept a proposal from Darcy. She tells Lady Catherine to leave. A few days later, Bingley and Darcy call on the Bennetts and Jane and Lizzie go walking with them. Lizzie confesses that she knows Darcy paid off Wickham and thanks him. He tells her that he did it for her and tells her that if she says the word, he will leave her alone. Though his love for her remains strong, she tells him that her feelings for him have changed and gladly accepts his proposal.
Darlene:Alright, so now we have an author bio. So Jane Austen was born on December 16th, 1775 in Steventon England. Her father was the rector of a parish and she was the seventh of eight children. Austen grew up in a household that fostered her independent thought and a love of learning. While she attended school briefly, the school fees were too high for the family and she supplemented her learning through reading. Her father often encouraged her writing and she often wrote poems and stories for her family. She compiled her works written between 1787 and 1793 into three volumes, now referred to as Juvenilia. When her father died in 1805, Jane, her mother and her sisters went to live with one of her brothers in the following years. She continued to write, but it wasn't until 1811 that she published her first work Sense and Sensibility. The novel was published anonymously and was only credited as being written, quote unquote by a lady. After its success, for which she only earned about 140 pounds, she published a book she initially called First Impressions, but which was later renamed Pride and Prejudice. The dialectical title is in reference to the opposition and balance between the two main characters, Elizabeth Bennett and Fitzwilliam Darcy. In letters to her sister Cassandra, she would often call the novel her darling child, and expressed the hope that people would readily like the character of Elizabeth. She went on to publish other successful novels such as Mansfield Park, which sold out in six months in 1814. And Emma, which is a favorite among critics in 1815. She was able to finish Persuasion before she became seriously ill in 1817 and passed away. Persuasion and a book she'd written earlier, Northanger Abbey were released posthumously in 1818. Although she received very little recognition during her lifetime, she is now celebrated as one of the great writers of the 19th century and her works are still highly regarded and discussed today. All of the published novels have been adapted in some way into movies, TV series, and even graphic novels. Her novels' mainstay in pop culture, speaks to her enduring legacy.
Hawa:Alright, y'all, thank you so much for that lovely plot summary and author bio. So now we're just gonna get into the discussion. So my first question for you all is how do you think this book held up? I feel like that's gonna be an easy one for you all to answer.
Elizabeth:I mean, I think this book holds up just out off the fact that there's so many different versions of it now. I mean, even to like, there's still some type of, I I feel like every year a version of Pride and Prejudice movie or TV show comes out. So I feel on that vein, it still holds up. I, of course, the whole class structure is<laugh>. Um, you know, it's like kind of icky. But it's interesting. I I mean, I, I don't know if there's anything I can think of that really felt like so problematic that I can think of right now. I'm trying to think. Yeah, nothing really. I, I'm trying, no, I don't think so. I mean, I, I do think she writes some of the characters as quite silly<laugh>. Um, but then there's, you know, there's balance to the characterizations of everyone. So yeah, I'm try, I'm trying to think like where, how can we cancel Jane Austen< laugh>?
Hawa:It's okay if you can't, you know.
Darlene:Yeah, I think because she focused so much on domestic life and kind of like the everyday, I think it's really hard to find any sort of instance that I think for other authors, I wouldn't say that we necessarily canceled them because we, I think we understand that it's a book of its time oftentimes. But I think that that's not really the case with her, because I don't think that any of her characters really allude to anything on a larger or wider scale than maybe like being at war. So obviously there's talk with the militia, and I think that think that there is an illusion to the fact that, uh, there was, I wanna say, a war with France. U h, I will edit this out< l augh> if that's not the case. But I, I do think there are like illusions to wider things happening in the world. But I think that she's more focused on like the simple, like the, the life of like the everyday family, at least as she writes it. Obviously, like Darcy's not part of an everyday family, but like, yeah, I think that she focuses more on like the narrower version of society.
Hawa:That makes sense. I think that it's funny that I ask that if this book felt dated in a way, and I mean it, I mean, you can definitely tell what time period it is, but I don't necessarily think that makes it feel outdated because I think that a lot of, like the themes and things that were discussed in this book don't feel like things that couldn't still be relevant today. And especially because, you know, there are so many different retellings now. So it definitely, I think stands to say that the story is still relevant. I mean, people not riding horses now like that, but I mean, she didn't know back then that there were gonna be cars now. So I mean, I can't fault her for that. You know,< laugh>,
Heather:You know, it's, it's difficult. So I think as a classic, it holds up remarkably well. I think it, it's plotty, it's cleverly written, the dialogue in it just sparks at times. Like it's, it's great on that level. So taken as a, a piece from the period that it was written and in terms of its influence on people on literature, I, I still think on that level it holds up beautifully. Well, and it's a must-read. With a modern eye. Obviously there's a lot of things in it that are kind of concerning. You know, I think one of the big themes in it is about class, but we really are still focused only on upper class people, you know? Even Lizzie's family where class is an issue for them and for the gardeners and things like that are still well to do by the standards of the time. So they're like lower upper class, I guess. But her father has, you know, good breeding and, you know, comes from the sort of family that has, uh, an estate to hand down. So the issues of class are very narrow in terms of, it's really only looking at one band of classism within a very specific and already very privileged class of people. And we don't see much about the people below them. You know, they are, they're just, they're part of the set dressing essentially. Right. You know, we don't really get any sense of what any of the, the servants think about things. You know, okay. They say that Mr. Darcy's a great master and all of this, but they don't have lives outside of just being, there's the housekeeper, here's the maid, here's a steward, here's a groom. There's, there's no depth to any of of those people. So we don't know how, how they would view any of the things in this world or what they're thinking about their lives or anything like that. You have Mr. Wickham, I guess, as sort of the like outlier where he's from a lower class, he's the son of a steward,
Hawa:But he comes out looking kind, kind of sketchy, but
Heather:He looks awful. Right.< laugh>. Right. So that's like, really, I guess maybe you could say that Mrs. Bennett and her brother and sister. Are maybe like upper middle class, like they're merchant class, but not like the landed gentry. But really Mrs. Bennett comes off awful as well.< l augh>, like, she's just a gold digger and like wants that for her girls. And she's completely like status and money obsessed. Her brother does better. I think Uncle Gardiner is much more likable and seems very shrewd and intelligent and has done very well for himself. Like as well as you can do without being titled or, you know, a landed class of family. But really other than him, a representation of people that are outside of the gentility, they, they all look bad, you know, like they, they don't come off well at all, which I'm, I'm not sure you know, what that says. Like, if the take home is that class should matter less, I'm not sure that's really the take home. Yeah. Because class, class only should matter less if you're really good and pretty and already in an upper class family on some level
Hawa:And trying to marry up anyway. Exactly.
Heather:< laugh>, you shouldn't be concerned about class as long as you stay within your class is kind of the take home.
Darlene:Yeah, that's true. I guess I didn't think about it that way. I think I just took it as a book that was very like, hyper-focused on a family, and then really it's positioned within a town and then obviously like women's rights and sort of the importance that marriage had in that society. So I think agreed that it holds up if you are taking it as a sort of representation of that time, but it is very limited in its scope.
Hawa:I guess the reason why I was so quick to say, oh, that should be easy for y'all to jump to because it's still, it's a, even though obviously, like, you know, a lot of the times when we ask these kind of questions, how does it hold up? We're talking about books that are a lot more recent, right? And we're talking about how things have dated that book, but this, that's not something that necessarily you can really talk about when it comes to a book like Pride and Prejudice. Right. But my thought was that because it, we've seen so many different remixes, remixes of it and stuff like that, that clearly there's something about that story that holds up well for people that still want to have their different interpretations of it to this day. So that's why, that was why my mind, I was like, oh, that should be easy. But y'all.
Heather:No, I think that's a really great point.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:And on, on certain levels, I think this book is still quite progressive. The women that do come across well in this book have tremendous agency even within the, the confines of their time and they're pushing at boundaries. And I think that's great. You know, I, I think that that was, that was really important and I think that resonates for people. And of course, you know, I think you've got this, this romance, well, you have two examples, sort of good romance, and then you have a third example of like a practical romance. And I think all of those can resonate for people too. You have the two very nice people that are just smitten with each other and they're gonna have a nice and, you know, very low-key<laugh> healthy marriage, we suppose, because there's genuine affection there for each other. And then.
Darlene:although they may be<indistinct> Yeah. I just thought that it was funny, Mr. Bennett was like, you'll probably be robbed of their money. Yeah.
Heather:You're both too nice. Your servants are gonna rob you blind< laugh>< laugh>. That's what he tells them. It's like, wow. Thanks.
Darlene:He couldn't just be happy for them. He had to roast them.
Heather:No. Well, he does, he's like always more concerned about like, getting zingers in.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:Than like,
Hawa:zingers.
Heather:Actually actually being a good dad.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:Cuz then at the end too? He is like, well, I've got three son-in-laws. Wickham's my favorite<laugh>.
Hawa:I was just like, wait, what?
Darlene:< laugh>, yeah. We had, so we had a conversation with that with Elizabeth, where's our guest? And I, we had different takes on that. I thought he was being sarcastic, like just like out and out being sarcastic. Whereas Elizabeth was like, well, I mean, he is the one that's probably easiest to talk to. Like,
Elizabeth:I mean, her fa in the, I think in the end of the book, his, her father basically says he still likes Wickham personality, personality-wise. He liked his personality of all of them, even though, I mean, of course what he did was ridiculous. I I'm not saying that he likes him, I just feel like if he had to choose who he had to spend time with, he would wanna spend time with Wickham because he's a more interesting person. I mean, you can do something deceitful, right. And annoying. But, but you know, also be someone who's more interesting to be around.
Heather:I think he's actually respected him at the end, really. Like, yeah, I, because he, he had also compared him earlier to Collins and being like, he's the savvy version of C- like, everything Collins is trying to do, Wickham's naturally good at, like, he appreciated that this guy's doing it smarm in a smooth way. Like he's slick about it. And so by the end, I think, you know, we have established that like he got, he got Lydia for pretty good terms, right? Like what happened to him. He ended up failing up. Like< laugh>, Darcy pays him off. Darcy gets him a commission in the Army. Then at the end of the book, Jane and Lizzie are sending money to them here and there. So like, yeah, everything worked out great for Wickham. And so like I really read that as, yeah, it's sort of tongue in cheek, but at the same time I think he respects the guy's game.<laugh>. No. Like, yeah,
Darlene:No, I could, yeah, I could see that reading that's
Heather:More respectable than the two guys that gave up stuff to sort of marry down for love because he feels like that's what I did. And look how crappy it turned out. Like,< laugh>, I hate my wife
Darlene:Now. Oh, no.< laugh>.
Heather:So I thought he was kinda like, yeah, I mean, Wickham did the best out of the three because he was also pretty respectful of Charlotte landing Collins. Like, I thought he was kind of like, you know, I respect these people's game. Like they, they saw the real object, which is not this happy marriage. It's, you know, do for yourself. Yah. And, and they played their hands well.
Darlene:Yeah. Well, I mean, technically he was pretty critical of Charlotte. Like, he was like, oh, I didn't think she was as silly as this. I mean, but yeah. And then he still does say that he understands where she was coming from. I think I just, because I remember that line of him saying that he'd much rather answer, I think a letter from Mr. Collins than Wickham. Like, he placed his correspondence with Mr. Collins above Wickham. So I was like, we already know he hates Mr. Collins. I don't think there's anything upper interpretation there. So I, I guess that's why I just took that as a very sarcastic line at the end. But that's like a common theme with him. It's almost like he just needs to just find the humor in things or like, I don't know if it's necessarily humor, but he just, he likes the ridiculousness of things.
Hawa:Yeah.
Darlene:And he comments on that very often.
Hawa:Yeah. Like even like in the very beginning when Mr. Bingley's coming to town and Mrs. Bennett's like, oh my God, like there's this new guy coming to town, like, you gotta check him out for our girls. And he is acting so uninterested just for him to be the first person up there, like< laugh>, and then he just lets him go on about it. Like, not even letting him really know that he went until he's able to like slide in on his own terms. And I'm just like, this man is in
Darlene:Yeah. He does things for his own amusement for sure.
Hawa:Yeah, exactly. I guess he gotta be amused somehow.
Darlene:Yeah.
Hawa:Seems sick of his family.<laugh>.
Darlene:Yeah.
Hawa:Cause his daughters are too silly.< laugh>.
Heather:Yeah, he's pretty, awful.
Darlene:Except Elizabeth.
Heather:Well, he likes Jane too, I think.
Darlene:Yeah. He likes Jane too.
Heather:She's not frivolous like the other, well, and I don't know why he says Mary's silly. She's like the opposite of silly. She's just,
Darlene:I think it was, uh, maybe it's like how hard.
Heather:He doesn't like her.
Darlene:Yeah. I think it's maybe how hard she tries and yet there's no ease about her< laugh>.
Heather:Yeah. well she tries hard and she's still bad
Darlene:Yeah, yeah.
Heather:He just doesn't respect her at all. So he respects two of the five kids he has, but then he also just like, I really don't like him, like everything about him. He created his own problem by marrying a woman that he ended up not caring for at all. Then goes really hard on the like, let's have a son, let's have a son. And then he is like, oh, I should have planned for if I didn't have a son. But by the time we realized I wouldn't have a son. Oh, well. And it's like, my God, that's your problem.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:Like you created this whole mess. And, and then he's just, he's awful to his family a lot of the time too, because he doesn't listen to Lizzie at all when she's speaking good sense. And being like, you need to get Lydia in hand, she's outta control. Like, why are you letting her go to Brighton? This is a terrible idea. Like, she's gonna be a problem if she's there unchecked. And he's like, ugh, well, she'd whine a lot about it, so I'm gonna let her go because I don't wanna deal with her anymore. And it's like, well now look at what you've done. Now you've created this whole problem for yourself. And then even when he thinks that Uncle Gardiner paid him off, he doesn't seem all that good about like, oh, I will figure out a way to repay him. It's just like, how am I gonna repay him? I probably can't. Like,
Hawa:He's like, oh, well, not, not a problem.
Heather:Yeah. Mr. Darcy
Darlene:Yeah. When it's Mr. Darcy, then he's like, he's
Heather:Like, I'm gonna pretend like I wanna pay him so that he can like fuss and say, no, you, and then I'm just gonna let it go.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:He's like, guy, that's a bad look. Like, I don't know, he comes across really poorly throughout the book to me.
Elizabeth:I also noticed her father more in revisiting the book because he had a lot of opinions. Right. And even one of the first things he does, because he always makes it seem like their mom is so silly and obsessed with, you know, trying to get them set up. But he did go and visit, who was it? Uh, Mr.- Mr. Bingley ahead of time and everything. So he's still, as much as he kind of dismisses his wife, he's still a part, he's still is aware like, this is a game we need to play. We do need to make sure that they're, they're set up. So I I, because I always felt like he was, I don't know, like he didn't get enough of the heat on, on kind of shuffling the puzzle pieces around when it came to his children, hopefully getting matches.<laugh>,
Darlene:I will say some of his roasts are pretty spot on. Like, I think one of
Heather:He does land zingers sometimes. I just,
Darlene:My favorite one has to be when he asks Mr. Collins if like, he studies his compliments or they just come naturally< laugh> and then Mr. Collins like, answers them so sincerely, like, oh, it's a mixture.
Heather:Yeah. I look for my opportunities.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:I don't want it to appear like I've planned them in advance. Yeah. He's, oh man, Mr. Collins is kind of an amazing character. Yeah. Yeah. The very lack of self-awareness.
Hawa:< laugh>. I think it was so interesting that, you know, if something were to happen to the dad that, you know, he's the one that's gonna get all the, all, all their, basically all their property and stuff like that. So, you know, he, I think he found himself trying to do them a favor by like saying, Hey, let me marry one of your daughters and make my way into the family. But he only was really interested in Jane or Elizabeth, and he finds that Elizabeth is, I mean, Jane is already probably gonna end up with Mr. Bingley. So he, he, he,
:he goes for second best, I guess that's what he finds himself doing. And she's like, no. And he's like, he seems so sure that she's gonna come running back. But at the same time, you seem so sure about it, but the next day you, you found someone else. So I guess you weren't as sure as you, you seemed like you were, I don't know. And I also feel like Charlotte gets a really bad rep for like, doing what was best for her, especially at a time like that. Right?
Heather:Oh, yeah. Charlotte's a hero in this story to me.< laugh> really, like, she saw an opportunity, she sees the best possible opportunity she was gonna have because she was 27. She was already like long in the tooth for the time to get married.< laugh>. And like, I think, I don't remember who it was, but one of the characters in the book was like basically roasting Charlotte and be like, she's basically a spinster at this point.< laugh>. And she knew, she was very self-aware of that. She knew she didn't have the looks to land a better person. Mr. Collins was a good catch, like worst case scenario, he's a well off pastor that has a good like parsonage, nice house. He has a wealthy patron. That's the worst outcome from that. Yeah. And like the best outcome, she's gonna take her friend's house out from underneath her< laugh> along with that like entailment in that estate, which would be, you know, significant at the time. And I love Charlotte. I was just like, get yours girl. Right.< laugh>. And then she was smart about how she played it. She got there and she was like, oh no, I encourage his gardening. I encourage his walking< laugh>, I encourage him to go to Rosings. I encourage him to leave the house as much as possible. And here look at my parlor that I have to myself.< laugh>, she was very, very savvy about how she navigated through the world that she was given. You know, she, she took any advantage she could see in a way that wasn't unkind to anybody at all. Mm-hmm.< affirmative>, like, she did a kindness to Lizzie by getting Mr. Collins off of her hands. She did a kindness to Mr. Collins by giving him a wife, you know?
Elizabeth:Yeah. She needed to, she needed to secure her future. Um, and I always felt like, you feel sad for the, the character because she is always talked about being
Unclear who is speaking:Not handsome.
Elizabeth:Yeah. Not handsome. Right. Yeah. So, so because she, but she has an amazing personality and it's always like, she's always passed over and it just is like, okay, well I'm, I'm getting older. I'm not going to have any, anything.
Unclear who is speaking:Yeah.
Elizabeth:And, and I think it, it shows where Elizabeth is a little bit lacking in her awareness. Uh, and, and honestly, her, her privilege maybe. I mean, that's, that's something she's like not realizing. It's like you've had, you know, multiple people show their interest in you and everyone doesn't have that, and everyone doesn't have that security.
Hawa:Right. Cause it's not like this is a, a, a situation of, oh, I dated this guy and he asked me to marry him, and I told him no, and you ended up married to him like the next day. Like, it, it, it's, it's, it's not like that though. That wouldn't be an interesting story, but it's not particularly like that. So I thought that was interesting.
Darlene:Yeah. I think the only time, because I, I, I do think that Charlotte comes off like, well to me, I, I, I think that's the only time I think I'm very critical of Elizabeth because I think I understand her in most sense, like why she thinks certain ways. But I think when it comes to Charlotte and the fact that Charlotte is her close friend and that she can't find any sort of compassion or understanding for her, I think that's when it really like dawns on you just how prejudiced and how very like, close- minded she can be. But yeah, the only time was, I think it was maybe once Elizabeth like visits her in Kent and like Charlotte is just as in awe of Lady Catherine as like, Mr. Collins's. I was like, how do you not see the Lady Catherine's ridiculousness?<laugh>? That was the only time I was like, Charlotte
Heather:< laugh>. I thought she did though. Like, I felt like Charlotte understood the game that was being played there.
Darlene:Okay. Okay. Fair.
Heather:And I also, I do think that Lizzie comes around a, after she visits them, I think it clicks for her, like
Darlene:Yeah. And she made a comfortable space for herself.
Heather:Yeah. Yeah. Good for Charlotte. This was a good move for her. But yeah, she was very shortsighted initially to not be able to see why that made sense for Charlotte. And, and also just coming from a real place of privilege to be like, Charlotte, you can do better than this. No, she can't. And she knows that. And she's telling you this, you can do better than that. You have a dad who's a gentleman you have, you know, you're more physically attractive. You're younger, you have, she's younger.
Hawa:She's younger, right.
Heather:She's like seven years younger than, yeah.
Hawa:So like, and I think that's also probably part of just like being younger and maybe being a little naïve is just to think that, oh, well, something better will find you someday. Like maybe Charlotte was thinking that at 20, but not at 27
Heather:<laugh>. Yeah. Well, and, and I think, you know, that it, it makes a, an interesting comment about Lizzie's romantic nature and
Darlene:Yeah, that too,
Heather:Sort of romanticism in general in this book, you know, Lizzie's emotions always are quite heightened. Like she runs hot. Like compared to Jane who's very sedate and inward to the point that like, people can't read her well, you know, the man that loves her can't tell if she's got feelings for him or not. And Darcy, who seems to be a fairly good judge of people also can't tell. Like no one's quite sure no one would ever think that about Lizzie, even though she does manage to hide her feelings from Mr. Darcy once they change. But her feelings always are very much on surface. You know, she's.
Hawa:Feel\s it and then she feels strongly about it.
Heather:Yeah.
Hawa:Like until something changes.
Heather:Right. And like that's a very romantic worldview to have to be like, oh no, Charlotte, you should marry for love. Like who?
Hawa:<laugh>
Heather:Like what are her options?
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:Like, yes, her dad got knighted, but they don't come- there. There's no status beyond that. That's all they have. And it's not enough to overcome that she's 27 and not thought to be a beauty. And
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:You know, the things that Lizzie values her for society doesn't value her for those things. And as much as Lizzie might want that to be and want her friend to find a, like great passionate love is not in the cards, but Lizzie keeps thinking that. But then she's very critical of that same attitude in Lydia. Which is kind of interesting because Lydia's like the, like more even extreme still where it's like she's falling in love with everybody all the time.< laugh>. And it's like, oh, soldiers, how amazing. Like everything is over the top and it's all about romance and it's all about flirting and love and all of this. And Lizzie can see that in her sister, but she can't see it in herself enough to be supportive of Charlotte, which I don't know. Yeah. I was irritated at Lizzie too during the< laugh>.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:Like things with Charlotte was, they're like, you should just be telling her thank you.
Darlene:Like, yeah, no, her, her self-awareness has, its up and ups and downs cuz she is pretty self-aware in certain aspects of the story. But yeah, I mean, going off of her romanticism, I thought it was really interesting and I don't know why, maybe the first two times that I'd read this book, it didn't really stand out as much, but on this reread, it definitely stood out how she talked about her parents' marriage and just like how aware she is of the lack of love that's there. And I think that that's probably why she searches for it in her own life. And then in the life of, you know, her really good friend Charlotte,
Heather:And just that they're profoundly ill suited for each other. It's not even, I don't think the lack of love, it's just that they're temperamentally such a bad fit for each other.
Hawa:He seems like he can't stand her
Heather:Pretty much. She doesn't seem particularly more enamored with him.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:Than he is of her at that point though. Hers is, I guess less cutting, you know, I mean he, he basically treats her like an idiot, which to be fair, she comes across as an idiot< laugh>. But you know, I I'm sure from her perspective, she's not. And yeah. And, and then I think they, they ultimately with Lizzie and with Jane, the focus is very much on finding the person that's temperamentally like you, you know? just like Jane and Bingley are both so nice and so compliant.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:That the dad is like, you guys are gonna get robbed blind by every sob story, servant, you know, work person, anything like that. And then, you know, Darcy and, and Lizzie are fiery, right? Like, they're both proud. They both are stubborn. They both, you know, they're very temperamentally alike and she says that, you know, repeatedly towards the end of the book, like, we're so like each other.
Darlene:Yeah. But there are hints of that.
Heather:There are marriages that aren't like that, but like she doesn't seem to see a space for that. And maybe it is because her parents' marriage is very poor. Like, but her aunt and uncle seem to have a very nice marriage and they don't seem all that alike. Like, they seem like very different and like developed characters to me. But I, I don't know.
Hawa:I will say that I was sur- initially surprised that, you know, when Mr. Collins proposes to Elizabeth and she said no, and her mom's like, you gotta make her, you gotta make her say yes to him. And the dad's just like, well Elizabeth, see Lizzie, it seems like you have a problem. See your mother will never speak to you again if you don't accept this proposal. But I will never speak to again you again if you do accept this proposal. And I was just like, go you. Because I really thought that her dad was gonna make a big deal about it because it's like, don't you want to have this estate for your family after I pass? Or don't you want to be married? Like, why are you being picky? And he wasn't like that. And I was like actually really surprised because it, I, I don't know much about the time that this book was written in, but it really felt like a time where these women are really just supposed to be rushing to get married off instead of being picky. So that was something that I was really surprised about. Um, especially in regards to like, the rights that the women had back then.
Elizabeth:Oh, she's his favorite< laugh>. If it was, if it was, uh, Mary on the other hand, he would've been like, yeah, let's get rid of her. Which I always, and maybe this is more so be also now I'm conflating the 2006 films with, uh, with, uh, this. But because they, I don't, I don't know, maybe I need to revisit the book again. Why? Because I, I, Mary is just always, they just don't care about her. Huh.< laugh> And I was like, like, why didn't they just, you know, give her to, or try to get her with, but maybe she was too young. I don't know. I always felt like she was left behind. Yeah. That, that's a character that I always, I mean there's a lot of characters already in the book, but it's, you know, there's, you just learn so much more about other characters that are not even in the family dynamic than you do, Mary. So
Heather:We didn't talk about the money much yet, but I did some research on sort of what the equivalency was for the money.
Darlene:I got so many different variations.
Heather:I did too, but I, the one I, I saw one that kept the Jane Austen Society of North America seems to be referred to a lot for, their economics page on this. And the person< laugh>, the person that wrote the article is they have a PhD in economics.
Darlene:Okay.
Heather:So, so I'm gonna go with this because this sounds very, like she did a lot of processes to get through it. So Yeah, like a lot of the things in the book, you hear the number and you're like, that doesn't sound like very much money<laugh>, but it's, yeah, it's a huge amount of money when it's converted for inflation. But I also, it also seems that, you know, the level of income that say, uh, the Bennetts have, even though like to us it doesn't sound very far away from 5,000 that Bingley has, or 10,000 that Darcy has. That was so far apart then because of the, the value of each of those pounds in today's dollars. So like, it's much more stark than like it comes across when you're reading it. So Mr. Darcy's income is supposed to be like 10,000 pounds a year is what-also why does everyone know what everyone else's income?
Hawa:No, really.
Heather:that's really strange to me
Hawa:Is there a database...look these things up
Heather:....A book where people. like have like this estate is, you know, this is what the bequeathment is with this estate or something. It could be the reputation too that just kind of precedes you though. It's, it's weird. I mean, I guess it would be like us saying like, oh, you know, Jeff Bezos is a billionaire. You know, like there's certain people that have so much money that you can peg them to some level I guess. But this all seemed extremely like specific. But this woman's work, and her name is Katherine Toran, um, with the Jane Austen Society of North America. She did this whole breakdown on the wealth of the characters. So she did a conversion on that time pounds to modern pounds to modern dollars. And then she also did retail price indexing.
Darlene:Oh wow. In depth
Heather:And like average earnings at the time and things like that. So like this was a very crunchy way to come to the numbers. So Mr. Darcy's income would be equivalent to about 16 million a year now.
Hawa:Sheesh.
Heather:Yeah. But then his estate, you know, is supposedly worth quite a lot more than that. So, so that's like, he's like in huge money. So the conversion to like what his estate was worth was like, it was close to like half a billion basically. Wow. Which makes sense if you think about the scale of his home, like Yeah, he has like the largest manor in that entire county. Right. So yeah, his estimated fortune was like 200,000 pounds, which works out to 328 million roughly. Then Mr. Bingley at 5,000 pounds would be around 8 million a year in today's money. Mr. Bennett, however, would be with a, with 2000 pounds would be like 3 million. So like they still have quite a bit of money.
Hawa:Yeah.
Heather:But you can also see like living high on the hog for them because they're feeding clothing, paying for all of their servants and they have like quite a large household staff. then maintenance on the grounds and like all of these things that they're doing, you know, it's at some point they're living like beyond their means basically. Like when, when he says the thing about, oh, well spending a hundred pounds on Lydia a year might actually save me money because just having her in the house, I was spending more on all of her frivolities.
Hawa:than no wonder they were, they're anxious to uh, marry them off
Speaker 2:<laugh>
Heather:< laugh>. So I thought that was interesting because it was very hard for me, like reading it both as an American, but also somebody that, you know, it's, I'm not living 250 years ago<laugh>. I was just kind of like, I have no clue what this, these don't seem like that different from each other, but like there is a significant difference in income level and the estate value because like he's, he's got the like 2000 pounds, but like I think his whole estate is only valued at like 5,000 pounds. Because didn't they say when part of the agreement with Wickham was that Lydia would retain her fifth share of the 5,000 pound estate to be given to her at the death of Mr. Bennett. So like you're still looking at like a fairly sizable estate, but it's not worth nearly as much as like what the upkeep on it is coming in as. So I don't know. I
Hawa:Yeah, no. That's super interesting.
Heather:But again, we're talking about like very, very upper class people.
Hawa:Yeah.
Darlene:Yeah. And I think it's interesting that they remark, I mean, and that puts it more into perspective cuz there is a remark about like how they think about the rich and how even before like Darcy opened his mouth, he was thought to be handsomer and like a fine figure of a man and you know, was looked on with great admiration until, you know, obviously like his actual personality came out and people just weren't vibing with it. But yeah, it was just interesting that before he had really even opened his mouth, people had already assumed his character to be thought of someone good.
Hawa:Of course, money talks. Money was speaking for him.
Darlene:< laugh>. Yeah. And then it's funny cuz then Charlotte, when it's found out that he's proud, she's like, well yeah of course he is. He has all this money. Why wouldn't you be proud?
Hawa:Oh Absolutely. And especially with the way that I'm sure he's used to people treating him because he has all that money. Right. So he's probably used to people treating him a certain way because he has that money and it's almost kind of like, okay, I might be reaching, but it might almost, almost kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. Like people treat him that way because he has money and he's just so used to it. So it it, when someone treats him differently, like I guess like how Lizzie was treating him, it kind of catches his attention cuz it's like, oh, so you're not worshiping the ground, you didn't worship the ground. I walk along everybody else. No, I know her feelings were hurt. She's really good at holding the grudge. Cause when he was like, yeah, she's not handsome enough for me and I'm just like, nobody in here is handsome enough for me. Which I think it's so funny that they used the word handsome but<laugh>, she, she was not letting that go for a while.<laugh>.
Darlene:Yeah. That was a great line too cuz I think she had said like she could have forgiven his pride had he not wounded hers. or something to that effect. But yeah. Austen like first kind of letting you know, just kind of how similar they can be. Yeah.
Heather:Well it also, it has a lot of echoes of Taming of the Shrew. I mean I feel like Jane Austen must have read that and been somewhat inspired by the give take, combativeness, uh, of, of the relationship because Lizzie does, she has a lot in common with Katherine from Taming of the Shrew I think. And so I like that Austen does that and you have this banter between them, but it's not, it's not as comedic as Shakespeare makes things like that. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, there's a lot of very cutting things that go between Lizzie and Darcy is like Hawa said, like she holds a grudge like
Darlene:<laugh>. And I, I think it's so funny that because he likes her so much, he's just like, he just takes it because there was just several times where it's just very obvious that she's just looking to insult him. Like there's one where she's trying to say that they have similar personalities, but really she's just describing his, I think she's saying, oh yeah. Like we're very similar in that we have to be the person that like says the funniest or wittiest thing in the room or something, or else we won't speak at all. And then he's like, I don't know how close that is to how you view yourself, however, I'm sure like you're actually really just talking about my own personality<laugh>. But yeah. And then I think after that conversation he's like more smitten with her and I'm just like, I don't know, I just thought it was funny that she could do no wrong. But I think it also said that she's very like personable and so even when she is being cutting, it doesn't come off as an affront to someone.
Heather:Yeah. I mean it's it's an, it's a fine line. Yeah. Right.< laugh>. Because I was trying to think about whether anyone could navigate that sort of banter now without it just coming across as like horribly passive aggressive and I guess, you know, you can tease people now, but it's there, there has to be a context of it being teasing otherwise it is just like backhanded or mean or really rude. And I guess she does at the end admit to, she's like, no, I was like abominably rude to you all the time.<laugh>, she really was< laugh>. Like some of the stuff she does is more of a, you could see how he would interpret it as teasing and how it might make him more when they're at, I think they're at Lady Catherine's house and she's talking to Fitzwilliam and she says, oh well I can tell you some things about your relative here, but they're really scandalous and horrible,I don't know if you could handle it sort of thing. Yeah. And then she's like, he came to the party and she does it very joking and light. So Fitzwilliam thinks it's, you know, all in good fun between them. Yeah. But she's really serious. Yeah. She's like, you didn't talk to me at the ball. You didn't talk to anybody. You didn't dance and you were an ass. And like. But I think from his end he's just like, she paid so much attention to me at the ball< laugh>. She knows exactly how many dances I had. Yeah. And like,
Darlene:And it's funny cause right after that he's like, well I'm just not very good at talking to people. And she's like, oh, because, and she was like, well I'm not very good at the piano piano, but I could practice. Yeah. It's like, you know, that's something like that can be practiced and then he just like smiles to himself because he thinks that she's just being, uh, I don't even know, like a little coy and just being like kind of like a little sting. But I'm like, I don't think that was a little sting< laugh>. No.
Heather:Especially cause she like doubles down on it and she's like, no, of course one could never practice talking to people at a ball.
Darlene:< laugh>. But yeah, I think it's maybe we as readers aren't supposed to feel like it's that biting because we know all of the context behind it and he hasn't been exonerated really in anyone's mind just yet. Uh, so it all feels very warranted.< laugh>.
Heather:Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean until, until he gives her the letter after he proposes to her. Mm-hmm., we have no reason to not be on the same page as Lizzie with like, this guy's a jerk. Like he's rude at these social events. And then he left this poor man that his father loved mm-hmm. destitute. And
Hawa:She was, she was really quick to believe what he had to say. But I guess when you already don't like someone and someone else is basically kind of confirming how you feel about them, then course you're gonna be like,
Heather:and someone is handsome.
Hawa:Yeah.
Darlene:Yeah
Heather:And that someone is like silver tongued con man< laugh>. And I'm like, yeah,< laugh>.
Darlene:Yeah. And I love that Austen drops enough hints that when you reread it, you're like, oh, the signs were there. We just like Lizzie were kind of, it was in the back of our minds. Mm-hmm. or like, we kind of pushed it away because there is the, there's a little like line that Austen has when she's talking about the fact that Wickham didn't go to the ball mm-hmm., um, i t was kind of a throwaway line that was like, yeah, it was on him. He decided not to come. It wasn't because Mr. Darcy had asked Mr. Bingley not to invite him. Right. And then I, yeah. And then Lizzie like going back, you know, after she reads that letter, she goes back and then she reexamines things like, yeah, he did say that he would never speak ill of Darcy, but, and then he did to just me. But then the minute that Darcy leaves, he told everyone, so which is it? Obviously you are speaking ill of him and it didn't really take much from you.
Hawa:So what is the truth?
Darlene:< laugh>? Yeah. So what is the truth?
Heather:Yeah. Well and also she knows like some of the things she dislikes about Darcy make the letter more believable. She knows him to be incredibly proud. She knows him to be, you know, very much obsessed with status in class and the, the natural orders of society. He's not going to put that piece about his sister in there. Yeah. Mm-hmm. if that's not true. Yeah. Like, he would not lie about that because it reflects poorly on his family. Mm-hmm.. So like, it is, I, I think that Jane Austen's very clever in the, the way that she, she does these little like confirmations of where it's an inversion of what we thought we knew confirms the opposite of it later on. And I mean, I think that, that, that takes a lot of work as a writer. Like, you really have to know where your story's going. And she has so many characters in this story and she does it with multiple characters. It's not just Darcy and Elizabeth, it's all of the people in their peripheral as well. And I just, I, I kind of marvel at that because she was a young woman writing, I don't think she really had any true help from an editor that was significant anyway.
Darlene:Um, no, it seemed like Cassandra was doing a lot of her editing
Heather:< laugh>. Right. I think it was just her sister would read her things and then they would talk about them and, and whatnot. So maybe some of her family members. But I don't think she had any kind of like real formal instruction or help in, in weaving these sort of things. Which, you know, I, I think that's very impressive. Like, it's a long book, it's 450 pages and there's very little in that book that isn't important. You know, it's not one of those books where you're like, man, this person could have used an editor< laugh>. It's, it's not Stephen King. Right. It's not late Stephen King where you're like,
Darlene:Yeah,
Heather:Yeah. This is really self-indulgent. Half of this could have been cut. Like almost every page has something that is integral to the conclusion for somebody. And I think that's, that's a, a real, a real feat. One of the things that I liked that was a later example of that was when when she meets Georgiana Darcy and she's able to see that other people would construe her as proud and haughty and rude, even though she sees that it's natural shyness, but because of her position, people would read it the wrong way. And she's able to reflect that she had done that for Darcy as well. And like, I think that's great. Like it took us 350 pages to get to that moment of self realization. Mm-hmm. But she gets there and that's, you know, that's how we all are. We all have those kind of like, oh, I get this and now I can give grace to this person because I'm seeing what that was like. It's not about me. It's something else.
Hawa:Gross.
:Gross
Darlene:Yes. Yeah.< laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's, I think going off of that, it also reminds me of something else I wanted to touch on in terms of how well the book holds up. Because there are certain times where, or there's one time where Elizabeth is reflecting on how she felt, I wanna say, is her name Mary King, who's the
Heather:Oh yeah. Mary King, the one that Wickham
Darlene:Wickham
Heather:Was chasing cuz she had a$10,000 inheritance.
Darlene:Inheritance. And I think she's reflecting on, on it and I wanna say that Lydia's saying something really like that.
Heather:She was freckled and ugly and small
Darlene:Yeah.<laugh>. Yeah. And so Elizabeth's I think reflects on that and it's like, yeah, I was very much the same. I was pretty harsh toward her when I, you know, I felt like I had lost Wickham's affections. So it's not even like I could sit here and judge Lydia for how she's talking about this woman. And
Heather:Yeah. She says like, I would never say what Lydia's saying, but I definitely thought
Darlene:I thought it.< laugh>. Yes.
Heather:And she, and she is hard on herself for that. Like, she's like, yeah, I, I don't get to be the, the better person here cuz it was in my head too. Yeah. I just didn't voice it. That's just better manners. It's not a better person.< laugh>.
Darlene:Yeah. And I love that kind of like self-reflection from Elizabeth and in Yeah. And then there are other times where Austen brings up this idea of how women talk to each other and usually because of their position in life, it's usually in romantic settings. But I think there's some note about Caroline and Elizabeth and how they talk about each other and Caroline says something like, oh, Elizabeth's the type of person who would like degrade her own sex so that she looks favorable to men not realizing that she does the exact thing.
Hawa:Mm- hmm..
Darlene:Oh, and she, she lacks the self-awareness in that and
Heather:She does it in a way that bites her in the later. Right.< laugh>. Because when they're at Pemberley and the gardeners and Lizzie have come and gone and they leave and she is, you know, still making a play out of jealousy and she's like, oh, I wouldn't have even recognized her. She looks so bad and like she's all brown from being traveling and she just looks terrible and she wasn't ever pretty to begin with and all of this. And Darcy just shuts it down and says, you know, I have thought for a long time that she's one of the most handsome women I've known<laugh>. But like, there's that, that moment where it's like, that's exactly what she had initially tried to critique her for and then it bites her. Mm- mm And there is that moment in the book after that where like she feels the sting of her own misplay on that one.
Darlene:Yeah.
Heather:And yeah. Yeah. But I, I think that's just interesting cuz I think for that time I didn't know that there was like already sort of that conversation about the competitive ways are like the weird ways that competitiveness in women is brought out in like romantic situations like that.
Darlene:So there was just too much to unpack with Pride and Prejudice in one episode. And we'll be returning to this conversation in part two. In the meantime, please check out our blog linked in the episode notes. As always, feel free to drop us a tweet. We're@pgcmls on Twitter and#TheseBooksMadeMe.