These Books Made Me

Nancy Drew: The Secret of the Old Clock

• Prince George's County Memorial Library System • Season 3 • Episode 5

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This episode finds us in the ambiguously located town of River Heights with teen sleuth, Nancy Drew. The Nancy series has mega intergenerational nostalgia vibes for a lot of us —that row of yellow spines on a shelf transports many of us straight back to childhood. But revisiting our Nancy-love by starting with book 1, The Secret of the Old Clock, produces some mixed emotions. Where are Bess and George? Why is Nancy blonde, wasn't she Titian-haired? While we may have been fuzzy on some of the details, Nancy's escapades are still a pretty wild romp. She's saving babies with massive head injuries, chasing a violent gang of thieves, helping little old ladies, and benefitting from all sorts of violations of attorney-client privilege. This book has everything... missing wills, two tragic boating accidents, a ripped evening gown, and a Euclidean lever. This episode has everything too... more sound effects, The Stratemeyer Syndicate, legal opinions, and a major spoiler for our next episode.

These Books Made Me is a podcast about the literary heroines who shaped us and is a product of the Prince George's County Memorial Library System podcast network. Stay in touch with us via Twitter @PGCMLS with #TheseBooksMadeMe or by email at TheseBooksMadeMe@pgcmls.info. For recommended readalikes and deep dives into topics related to each episode, visit out blog at https://pgcmls.medium.com/.

Midred Benson: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/adventurous-writer-who-brought-Nancy-Drew-to-life-180969479/

Changes from the 30s to the 50s revision: https://library.csun.edu/SCA/Peek-in-the-Stacks/nancy-drew

Heather:

Hi, I'm Heather.

Darlene:

And I'm Darlene. And this is our podcast These Books Made Me. Today we're going to be talking about the Secret of the Old Clock, the first volume in the Nancy Drew series written under the pseudonym Carolyn Keene. Friendly warning as always, this podcast contains spoilers. If you don't yet know who fell off a bridge, proceed with caution. We have a special guest this week. Could you introduce yourself?

Andrea:

Sure. My name is Andrea. I work for Prince George's County Memorial Library System at the New Carrollton Bridge. So what did this book mean to you? Was this everyone's first time reading? And if not, how did this reread compare to your memories of reading it when you were younger?

Heather:

Definitely not my first time reading it. I was addicted to the Nancy Drew books when I was a little kid. I probably read this when I was like, in first grade. I was obsessed with these books between like first and third grade. And then in fourth grade I switched to Agatha Christie< laugh> because I really loved mystery books because of Nancy Drew. The most recent time I had reread this before now was when my eldest daughter was of an age that I started Nancy Drew and I read it again thinking I'd give it to her to read. I was like, this is not very good.< laugh>.

Darlene:

< laugh>. Oh no.

Heather:

So that did not end up being the book that I gave to her, but they were on the shelves cuz I still have most of my coffees from when I was a little kid reading it again is, you know, they're not great literature at all. Really. It is kind of funny on reread though, because they're very dated.

:

Yes.

Heather:

And reading it through adult eyes is a trip. So yeah, I wouldn't say that that I loved the book on reread, but the reread was funny to me. So it was, it was worthwhile

Darlene:

< laugh>. I think I had a similar progression from Nancy Drew books to Agatha Christie. Um, I will say, because I really loved Nancy Drew, I withheld reading Sherlock Holmes' books. That was like, Nancy Drew is the sleuth for me. Like, why do I wanna read this? Like male detective books. Yeah. Similarly, I, I didn't read them until maybe I was in fourth or fifth grade. And yeah, they were just really easy reads and I like devoured them on reread. It was kind of difficult to get through, but for me it was more so that everything just like happens fall into place for her. And I think that that just made it kind of boring. Like it was so easy to just glaze over some things and do like a really halfhearted speed read of it because it just felt like things were just gonna fall into place for her. There was no real sense of like, danger.

Heather:

there's no mistakes,

Darlene:

anything. Yeah.

Andrea:

I found these books when I was nine in my grandfather's attic. They were my mother's books and she'd read them and, uh, I thought that this Nancy Drew was just something out of this world because one, she was a girl solving mysteries. Two, she was a big girl because I was nine when I found these books. So she was a big girl doing like amazing things. And I like the two of you just went flying through all the books that were in the attic. My mother said, oh, I used to love those books. So I was tickled when we were talking about doing this. Cause I was like, oh, I'm gonna get to read some Nancy Drews again. And now they're so unbelievably dated to me and I find myself as an adult picking. Really? You said that seriously. You did that Really. Which is not the way you should look at the books, but they aren't the best written things. But if you're 10.

Heather:

Yeah.

Andrea:

They're amazing.

:

It's a John Grisham or a, a Patterson for a little kid.

Andrea:

Absolutely. And they're, you know, I'd never read a mystery with a, a woman protagonist or a teenager protagonist who's doing all this cool stuff and figuring it out. But Darlene's right, she doesn't really get hurt. She gets locked in a closet, she gets out, she doesn't get, she doesn't get, you know, frustrated. Really. She maintains her cool. And she's got a convertible for God's sake. I. mean,

Darlene:

She does< l augh>

Andrea:

everything works out great for her. So, but at nine, I'm telling you, I couldn't put'em down. I couldn't put'em down. Couldn't put'em down.

Darlene:

Yeah. I mean, I will say she's very resourceful. Like, that was really cool to see as like to read as a child. And I was just like, oh, like if I were to ever find myself locked in the closet, could I do the same thing? But yeah.

Heather:

And she's pretty fearless. She has no problem approaching grownups in confrontational ways when she needs to. She really didn't hesitate to get herself into some sticky situations because she's very motivated by doing the right thing. And she feels like she has moral justification

Andrea:

For what she's doing, for

Heather:

What she's doing.

Andrea:

She, she comes up with great workarounds. Like when she couldn't get those keys back in the, in the truck, she's like, you know what, I'll leave them here on the floor. And, and, and they'll think they lost them< laugh>. It was pretty, pretty good thought pattern on her, on her part. So yeah.

Heather:

I will attempt a quick plot summary of The Secret of the Old Clock. Nancy Drew, a vivacious 18 year old sleuth lives with her father, attorney Carson Drew and their housekeeper Hannah Gruen in River Heights. While tooling around in her blue convertible, Nancy witnesses the near death of a small girl, Judy Turner as a delivery van nearly runs her over and causes her to fall off the bridge. Returning Judy to her elderly aunts who are raising her reveals a mystery. They and other impoverished relations and friends had expected to be left money by their wealthy cousin, Josiah Crowley. But at his death, his will had been inexplicably changed to benefit the Tophams Nancy is well acquainted with the Tophams, a snobbish nouveau riche family because she attends school with ther daughters Ada and Isabelle. Nancy sets about locating a second Crowley will to benefit the Turners, the Hoover sisters, a pair of elderly brothers and Abby Rowan, an elderly and bedridden woman in her quest to recover the will. Nancy encounters a gang of thieves, goes to summer, summer camp, fights with the tops in a department store, gets locked in a closet, locates an Italian opera coat, and temporarily steals some evidence. Ultimately, Nancy succeeds in locating the true will in an old Crowley family clock. And all of the impoverished beneficiaries rejoice as the Tophams are rode out of town on a rail.

Darlene:

So now I'm gonna do the author bio. If you grew up with the Nancy Drew series, chances are the name Carolyn Keene. It sounds familiar to you as the author credited on all the books. However, Carolyn Keene is a pseudonym for a slew of authors who have worked on the series since its star In 1930, the most notable of which is Mildred Benson, who is responsible for the formation of key aspects of Nancy's character that have made her a beloved character for 92 years. Benson, much like the famous heroine from the book she penned, was an independent adventurer with a resourceful spirit who has had jobs as an author, pilot and journalist. She was born on July 10th, 1905 in Ladora, Iowa. Despite growing up in a rural town with limited prospects for women, her parents encouraged her to get an education and pursue her dream of becoming a writer. In 1927, she became the first person to obtain a master's degree in journalism from University of Iowa's School of journalism. Edward Stratemayer, head of Stratemayer Syndicate was impressed with her writing and asked her to write for some established series when it came time to realize his vision for a counterpart to the successful Hardy Boys series, Stratemayer tasked, Benson with writing the first volume for Nancy Drew Benson, like other authors who have written for the Nancy Drew series, gave up her right to royalty payments on the series for a flat fee of$125 per book. She and the other authors were given briefs with an outline of the books, plot, characters names, and other general information. They would then have to flesh out the book. Benson noted that her main concern was Nancy trying to make her a departure from the stereotyped heroine commonly encountered in the series books of the day. Benson would go on to author 135 books including 23 of the first 30 books, and then Nancy Drew series. It should be noted that the series is not without a complicated history. In 1959, some of the first 34 Nancy Drew books were edited to remove racial stereotypes and to make the protagonist a softer, less impulsive and stubborn character. Nancy Drew is still a revered character to this day and is a fixture in pop culture as an eternally youthful sleuth.

Heather:

Okay, so let's talk about the secret of the old clock. How did this one hold up for you all? There's, there's a lot dated in this.

Andrea:

Oh, it's, It's just completely dated.

Darlene:

Yeah.< laugh>,

Andrea:

it's completely dated, but Nancy's, Nancy's got a lot of clothes. She got a of clothes.

Heather:

She does, she has a summer sweater suit.

Andrea:

She has a summer,

Heather:

which is wild to me. Like what even is that?< laugh>?

Andrea:

But, but I think it's very 1950s cuz when I was reading some of the stuff, I was thinking about things my mother used to wear or pictures of her.

Heather:

mm- h mm.

Andrea:

in the early sixties. Yeah. Summer sweaters. And she's got a convertible. She got a blue convertible And she comes from a group of people who have, you know, butlers and caretakers. It's evident, at least to me, that Hannah is, uh, kind of a surrogate mom for her.

Heather :

Mm-hmm.

:

But she's the housekeeper. So she comes from a, a certain strata level that puts her in the position to be able running around, going and outta other folks' houses and looking for stuff. I

Heather :

She straight up breaks into some place.

Andrea:

She breaks into the, yeah, she breaks in and she takes, and then she takes it

Heather :

And she steals the clock

Andrea:

And she keeps it.

Heather:

And well, until she tells the like, officer that's like giving her a ride. She's like, oh, by the way, I stole this clock

Darlene:

< laugh>,

Andrea:

I stole this clock.

Heather:

Okay.

Darlene:

And he's

Heather:

but it was for a good reason.

Andrea:

Yeah. And, and nobody, nobody takes her to task or stuff like that. It's like, oh, okay. Because I don't actually think I could have done that

Darlene:

< laugh>.

Heather:

No. She also seems to have endless amounts of like, spending money on her at all.

Andrea:

She does at all times.

Heather:

So she goes to the department store and the Topham sisters, they're very rude to the sales clerk. Then they get into this petty tiff with Nancy there and end up destroying this dress.

Andrea:

A brand new dress,

Heather :

A brand new off the rack

Andrea:

Off the rack.

Heather:

And they just leave. And so Nancy is like, oh, well that's a shame. I I don't want the like clerk to be on the hook for this, so I'll buy the dress,

Andrea:

I'll buy it.

Heather:

I just need a little discount and let's get it altered while I'm here. So she's buying this evening gown, I think was the description

Andrea:

Yes, it is, the evening gown.

Heather :

Right. So she does that no biggie. Then later she buys all these charity ball tickets off of her friend, which then cost a hundred dollars for,

Andrea:

which is a lot.

Heather:

the Tophams to buy

Andrea:

A lot of money.

Heather:

So she was just carrying like enough cash to buy out her friend's tickets to use as a ploy later. She also had money to buy groceries for Abby. She had money to go to the summer camp and she pays

Andrea:

She paid to stay there, didn't she?

Heather:

Helen, what, what's the girl's name?

Andrea:

Uh, Helen is the girl that she goes with

Heather:

To the summer camp.

Andrea:

And then Martha is

Heather:

So Helen's aunt runs the camp or something.

Andrea:

And she pays her.

Heather:

And she pays the aunt. Oh yeah. I decided to just swing by and stay here for a few days. Here's some cash. She seems to be carrying massive amounts of cash on hAer.

Andrea:

She does

Heather :

At all times. Which really doesn't hold up to now at all. That would be very foolish to do.

Andrea:

It really would.

Heather:

And no one would do that. I don't know. I just, I'm imagining this girl in a sweater set like flashing Benjamins everywhere,

Andrea:

Sweater set, as, skirt and some flats. Yeah. For her convertible.

Heather:

Sensible flats.

Andrea:

Right.

Heather:

Um, that's weird. And I think that that's definitely a product of the time for the book. Nobody would behave like that. Lots of the interactions she has with adults are very odd and I'm not sure that that's a function of how old the book is. Well, but she like stops by the judge's house and has lunch and then she stops by like the mayor and has lunch. She knows everybody. These adults treat her like she's an adult.

Andrea:

I, I think, I think some of that it appears to me has to do with the fact she doesn't have a mom. So she rolls with her dad and so she, you know, he, he does that stuff. So she does it too. She doesn't fit a gender role really. She, she honestly doesn't, she's not, she's not coy. She's upfront, you know, we've already said she breaks into houses and takes what she wants. And I think she feels pretty much okay with that because she's acting, the parent that she has is male.

Darlene :

Yeah.

Andrea:

She has very male kinds of attitudes towards things or how she's gonna go after something because a 1950s girl is not breaking into somebody's house. She's like, yeah, I gotta go get this thing. I'm breaking in.

Heather:

That's a really good point. And when I was reading it again, it's been a long time since I read these books. I was surprised that Bess and George weren't in it because my memory of Nancy Drew is that she has her sidekicks Bess and George. Well they apparently don't show up for another few books. And Helen was like gonna originally be the sidekick,

Andrea:

Yes.

Heather:

but I guess didn't pan out. And

Andrea:

Then she, she goes away. She gets older and moves away.

Heather:

And then gets replaced basically by Bess and George.

Andrea:

Yes.

Heather:

Well I didn't remember that. So I was surprised that Bess and George weren't there because you're right. Like they sort of are the different facet. George is the tomboy, Nancy is slick, put together one, Bess is the girly girl. Like you have these rules that's nonexistent in this. The boyfriend that she gets later, Ned, I was expecting him to be in this. Nope. Nope. So for the first book, like it's kind of great there. There's really no like putting her in a box other than like all of the talk about like what she's wearing at various times. Yeah. Her behavior is not gendered really at all

Andrea:

It is not.

Darlene:

Yeah. And going off of what was said about her dad, I mean she also benefits a lot from his reputation cuz there's a lot of times that people are just like, oh, you're just falling in the steps of your father. Which is a very like, I guess cavalier or just like dismissive way of just being like, this girl is like in several crime scenes, but that's okay. Like, she's just like her dad. She's just, you know, trying to figure out like how to help people. And so she really benefits from that. But I also feel like sometimes that just gets treated too much as like a path in some parts of the book, it's supposed to like explain a way why she gets to like be there.

Heather :

And it's completely unrealistic. But yeah, I think you're right. She gets treated like an extension of her dad and given the same sort of access and entree into society that he would have, which is interesting.

Andrea:

And he asked, he asked for her help. Yeah. He, he asked what she thinks he, he thinks that she's going, we have figured out what the will is. I mean there's no attorney doing that.

Heather :

Oh, well and he definitely is like egging her on.

Darlene:

Yeah.

Heather:

To do these things that are borderline illegal and really quite dangerous.

Darlene:

Ye ah.

Heather:

I don't know. Nancy's doing a lot of very fraught things at various times. There's, you know, some of it is just like melodrama. It's supposed to give you this like, whoa, look, all these things are happened cuz we like opened the book with a very small child, almost getting

Andrea:

Killed by a truck.<Laugh>

Heather:

killed by a truck. And instead falling off of a bridge and suffering a head injury. And then Nancy, you know, revives her and takes her back to the aunts. And we find out that the reason she lives with these elderly women is cuz her parents died in a boating explosion.

Andrea:

boating accident!< Laugh>

Heather:

which this is the second character in a book that we've read for this show where the parents have died in a tragic boating accident. And I just, that that's not a thing.

Darlene:

That's not a thing.

Heather:

No. But it apparently is in books of this time.

Andrea:

So part of my, part of my re the first thing that I noticed when I started reading this was they tell you who Nancy is right up front. She's attractive.

Heather:

Mm- hmm.

Andrea:

She's blonde, she's blue eyed. And then the next thing that stuck out was she gets this kid off of the, the kid with the head injury. Did they call the ambulance?

Heather :

No. And they're saying this girl lost consciousness. Her head is swelling up to where they're like, and no one does anything.

Andrea:

Nobody calls anybody.

Heather:

We'll get you a band-aid< laugh>. It's like this child is like severely concussed and might have some kind of like subdural hematoma and they've done nothing.

Andrea:

And, and then it says Nancy revives her. Really? She fell off a bridge on her head. You didn't call anybody. Okay. Alrighty then. But I will say this, in the fifties there was no 9 1 1.

Darlene:

Oh, okay.

Andrea:

You had to, you had to call the police.

Heather :

But Nancy has a convertible.

Andrea:

That's right. She does have a convertible.

Heather:

Go to the hospital.

Heather :

No, we're gonna stick an ice pack on it. She's fine.

Andrea:

Carried her in the road. Put her down. She'llbe okay. Yeah.

Darlene:

Yeah. They would've had to flesh out the hospital scene and then they would've had to do it again for, um, oh, who, what was the name of the other lady that she goes and visits and she's

Heather :

Abby

Andrea:

Abby.

Darlene:

Yeah.

Heather :

Who like has like a broken ankle that Nancy like gets some bandages and it's like, you're fine now.

Andrea:

She's, she's I'm telling you she's got all kind of skillsets.< laugh>.

Law & Order Voice:

How does the defendant plead,

Heather :

Speaking of some of the wild things that Nancy does related to Carson Drew, her dad, I was very struck by early on. So this is on page 17, the phrase Nancy had been taught never to gossip occurs. And it's immediately contradicted by Carson gossiping about literally everyone.

Andrea:

Yes.

Heather:

One day I was in the bank and Crowley came in and I heard a few words about a will

Law & Order Voice:

Objection.

Heather:

He tells her everything about everyone's business.

Andrea:

Right.

Heather:

All the time. Even when they're his clients.

Andrea:

Which a good lawyer would never do.

Law & Order Voice:

Guilty.

Andrea:

Because that's, that's

Heather :

Who taught her never to gossip.

Andrea:

Right.

Heather:

Hannah the housekeeper because it wasn't her dad.

Andrea:

No it wasn't.

Heather :

Yeah. The attorney-client privilege issues in this book.

Andrea:

Are killed.

Heather:

are concerning and we should discuss them.

Andrea:

They're obliterated. They're obliterated.

Law & Order Voice:

This session is adjourned.

Heather :

Uh, Nancy eats very well. Um, the one day when she first starts like her investigations and he's like, oh, well you can talk to. She eats with them. She eats with another person and his wife. Yes. And then she eats with Allison when they have the birthday cake

Speaker 3:

And the first thing she does when she gets out of the closet is go eat. Yeah. Cause she was really hungry. Now

Speaker 1:

Girl, girl marks up an appetite.

Speaker 3:

<laugh>,

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about Nancy's sleuthing.

Speaker 2:

<laugh>. I feel like I just have to laugh. She seems so cool when I was younger and then now that I'm rereading it, a lot of it's just common sense or it's just random things. I, I just feel like it's not real sleuthing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. There's not really a mystery.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's just like she's going, she, I mean she follows her hunches on certain things. Yes. But yeah, there isn't like a true mystery. It feels like everyone kind of gives her the information and then she's just the person to follow through on it. Right. Like

Speaker 1:

Abby's, like there's a notebook.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And a clock<laugh>. So then she's like, Hey, where's the clock? And the caret get the notebook and the notebook's like the well's in a safe deposit box. Here you go.

Speaker 3:

Right. Cause there's some notebook hanging inside of it after she busted all open. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, there was no real likes sling in the way that there's

Speaker 1:

No, no cleverness to

Speaker 2:

It. Yeah. And I just, I, it was weird rereading it because I was like, I thought there was like a cleverness to her sling. Like I thought there was, there was more to it. And then I think I was like a little disappointed. And this wasn't the only one I reread. I just like found some other ones at the library and none of them was, I like particularly impressed.

Speaker 1:

I don't know. But you're right, like in this one, nothing clever happens. She, she does do some very dangerous things. She does like, she has absolutely zero sense of self-preservation.<laugh>. She's constantly chasing armed thieves. Right. In her convertible. Then she's like breaking into their car, breaking into a home. The

Speaker 3:

Breaks into Barnes.

Speaker 1:

Yes. Very. She, she goes out on a lake to like do reconnaissance on the house that she laid motor the motor breaks down. Yeah. She has very poor sense of self-preservation.

Speaker 2:

<laugh>.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

I agree. Yeah. I thought she kept like, I thought it was just luck propelling her<laugh>, which is never like fun. I think now that they, you're older, you're just, whenever you read books or watch shows or movies, if it's just luck that gets them out of it, it feels very like boring. It feels like there were no stakes. It was just their luck because they're the protagonist they're gonna get out of this.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I am curious cuz Andrea, you actually read the original

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Version and it says that the versions that we read, they had toned down her like impulsivity and like recklessness. Right.

Speaker 3:

Cause when

Speaker 1:

Did she do that was more reckless and impulsive than chasing the like thief gap?

Speaker 3:

Well, so the seeds were, were drank a lot and she was, you know, pretty much going up almost toe to toe with a bunch of drunk guys. But she was also, if I, the thing that I didn't see in this book, and I kind of remembered in my head was she was kind of MacGyver. She was good at taking things and getting outta stuff and moving things around. Which, um, as a 10 year old, I thought she was a better encyclopedia brown. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> who I adored.

Speaker 1:

Me too.

Speaker 3:

Um, but when I read this I was like, no, she's not MacGyver in here. I mean, she tries to get out of the closet.

Speaker 1:

She does outta the closet I guess.

Speaker 3:

Well she doesn't, but she, the, the, the caretaker lets her out cuz she's got that

Speaker 1:

Route. She like levered it partway and then, and he,

Speaker 3:

He finds the key in his back pocket and then he lets her out<laugh>. Um, but I thought in the first one she got out of the closet on her own. So her impulsion was, you know, I'm just gonna go do this right now. Um, there was no actual prior thought just, yeah, I'm gonna go do this now. Um, but

Speaker 1:

She never really has a plan No. In this. It's just like she sees something, which again, it's why it's like strange to me that it's saying they made her, this is the less impulsive version mm-hmm.<affirmative> because she really has no plan at any point. She's just like, okay, I see this, I need this thing so I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 3:

Right. And she's also 16 in the first book. So she's really being 16 years old, you know, I'm gonna go do this thing and I'm whatever happens, happens kind of thing. But I'm, I'm strong, I'm healthy and so I'll get out of it kind of thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I could see the, the part where it said that they made her character a little softer. Cause I feel like there's a lot of times that she takes the like moral high ground in the book, but the top ones like she's not quite as like biting in her remarks about them. I mean like, she obviously doesn't want them to succeed, but it's more so the emphasis is placed on her trying to help all these other people, um, that would stand to really benefit from the money and Yeah. Just like every time she like meets one of them, it's supposed to showcase like some like wonderful aspect of her character and just like how inviting she is. How like immediately nice she is and like helpful and like willing to go to bat for people that she only just met like a few minutes

Speaker 1:

Ago. Yeah. She's girl white knighting it, right. Like Right. Everyone she meets, she saves. Yeah. Like it's an old person. I saved them. It's a baby. I saved them. It's, you know,

Speaker 3:

In the first book she's really, it's really, it really is a high school kind of a rivalry thing, you know? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, the, the kids with a lot of money versus I'm doing okay. But my dad scrapes, you know, he works hard for it and I'm hard scrabble and I think you guys are, you know, horrible and I'm real glad to see you get it come up and it's more of a class, a class issue than what Darlene was talking about with her being helpful. She, she wants to see someone's downfall in the

Speaker 1:

1930 book. And I do think at the end of the book that sha for aspect sort of stays there because they talk about like they had to move to a smaller

Speaker 3:

House. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And now they're gonna have to work and chase just kind like, haha, maybe it'll be good for them.<laugh>.

Speaker 3:

Haha. Yeah. That is,

Speaker 1:

There is a little bit of like pettiness at the end. Yeah. Cause like it's really not established what the girls have done other than just like their bratty, you know. Yeah. Right. Like they weren't robbing these people. It was definitely their parents that had done this. Right. But yeah, Nancy seems very thrilled with their, their downfall.

Speaker 3:

<laugh>.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk a little bit about the gender roles in the book. We touched on it a bit that Nancy herself is not particularly gendered, but I I don't know that that applies to the other characters in the book very well because I do think we get a lot of sort of stereotypical, and I'm sure it was of the time, the housekeepers a woman mm-hmm.<affirmative>, the, the two destitute elderly aunts are very like feminine and they're just doing their best and they're kind of helpless and not put together. The two sisters are also just doing their best. But you know, they're very like

Speaker 3:

Doty kinda, they

Speaker 1:

Don't really have any kind of like real agency in their own lives it doesn't seem like.

Speaker 3:

Right. And if they don't get this money, they're all gonna be living on their porches or something.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And like all of the people that we see in any kind of positions of authority are all men. You know, Carson drew the judge, the Toum guy who's, you know, the brain's behind this. Even the dead guy like Yeah. Carly, anyone with with means and like any sort of actual authority seems to be male. Um, even the two brothers that are like the cousins that are the farmers. Right. They're shown in a more like prestigious way than the like other destitute relatives.

Speaker 3:

Yes. They just wanna travel.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. They just wanna do something extra, but they're getting by just fine. But none of the women are. Right. Abby is literally like, I've fallen and I can't get up, lady, I've

Speaker 3:

Fallen. She is

Speaker 1:

And I

Speaker 3:

Can't get up. It is

Speaker 1:

Like, for me, I just have this pension I can't even feed myself. Oh no. It's like, it's, it's not great from a, other than Nancy perspective in terms of I think how gender comes through in the, the book.

Speaker 2:

Interestingly, even for Nancy though, I feel like sometimes a lot of things she got away with was because she was a woman. There were certain allowances that people gave her because she's, and I don't know if that's always present as much in this book. Maybe I'm thinking of like the other ones I reread cause I reread the one after this, the Hidden Staircase and I forgot the, there was another one. But I just felt like oftentimes when she would be talking to people, they would just give her allowances because she was a woman. Like, they didn't think that she was gonna like, be the one to like solve the mystery or if she found herself in a place she shouldn't be, they kind of just really dismissed it because like what exactly was she gonna do?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2:

So there is like a sort of benefit to it. But I do agree that for the most part, she's not very much, she's not very gendered, um, in this book.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and she's not, but she does get away with stuff and people don't really question her. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> because she goes to that summer camp cuz she wants to get in a boat so she can go over there to that cottage and she keeps asking these questions and finally Helen says, you seem to really, you know, wanna know something about it. She's like, no, no, no. Just, you know, wanna know where it was. And they let it go. Yeah. They just let it go. So then when you're on the lake all day in the boat and you, you just went out there all day and you greasy too. What's wrong with you? Oh well the motor didn't work, but it, there's no follow up to

Speaker 2:

<laugh> to why you even took it out in the first place. Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

No. And the cops don't even ask her. Yeah. Like why did, why did you break into that house and encounter the thieves that put you in the closet in the first place? When she did have the encounter with the thieves in the house? I kind of initially thought they were treating her I guess a little bit more gently because she was a girl. But really they hadn't done anything different to Tucker

Speaker 2:

Is true. Shoved

Speaker 1:

Him in

Speaker 3:

A closet, shoved him in a closet too.

Speaker 2:

But I mean, they knew that they shoved him in a closet and that there was like, it was very likely that no one was gonna come. He was gonna die. Yeah. That he was gonna die. But then later they're saying like, oh, we're gonna get in so much trouble. And what's the, the head guy's name sound Sid. They were like getting angry with him and saying that like he, he did the most wrong by like locking Nancy up. Like they didn't talk about Jeff at all, all speaker at Yeah. But it was like the fact that she might die. That's what, that's what's like really bad about this.

Speaker 1:

I mean, in fairness, that probably would've gotten them in a lot more trouble than the caretaker guy. Yeah. Cause it's not like the top s cared about that dude. Right. But like, if you killed the daughter of the like prominent town attorney that like pals around with judges, wells,

Speaker 2:

Chairs. Well it's, yeah. I don't think they knew that of her. But still, yes. Her death, if it were to be tied to them would be a much bigger deal. Especially now that we have context that Jeff and the original version of this book was black. He was not white. Right.

Speaker 3:

The caregiver, the caregiver in the first book was black and his character was somewhat childlike. If, if you'd seen a picture of him, he probably was shuffling. He gets drunk because the, the robbers get him drunk. And his, his spoken parts are in dialect, which was indicative of literature written in the, in the thirties. And so when they rewrote the book, he became tall, thin, and white. The town has no other diverse, has no diversity. The diversity would be based on class, not on, not on race. And um, they took the alcohol out. And so it's kind of interesting because that book was written in 1930 in Prohibition. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> had started. So for them to get drunk, that was also part of the, that was part of the crime, was the fact that they were also drinking illegal alcohol. And then of course the, the black caretakers gonna want something so they give something to him too and then they lock him in the closet. So he's a mess. And no one believes him. So she says she takes him with her, Nancy takes him with her to the police because we have to report this robbery. And he tries to get sober by putting a hose on his face and she gets annoyed with him. You know, she's very, she's in in the first book. She's very Kurt, she's very short and she, she wants him to just come on cuz we have to go do this thing. And when he's telling the story, the police think he's one of the robbers, you know, he's still kind of drunk and they, and so they, everything he says she has to back it up, she has to back it up. So that came out in the 1959 version. And so everyone in the book is Caucasian. And once again, the only diversity would be a class kind of a diversity. So you've got poor people and you've got people with means.

Speaker 1:

It's interesting too. Where do we think this town is?

Speaker 3:

Where in the world is, I don't know. Is it in New York?

Speaker 1:

I have no idea. I was thinking it was maybe like vaguely Midwestern. I really

Speaker 2:

Like Coast. Oh, interesting. Cause I was thinking like New England like that, that

Speaker 1:

Would work too. I mean it definitely has the like small town vibe, but small town for mostly rich people. Yeah. And then some farmers

Speaker 3:

In my head I see the Finger Lakes region has got this leg. There's a lot of trees, but there's also farms. So I kept thinking, oh maybe New York, upstate New York. Someplace like that.

Speaker 1:

That makes sense. It could

Speaker 3:

Easily be, it could easily be upstate Michigan too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I think I must, I I maybe was thinking like Midwestern just because of the overwhelming whiteness of the<laugh> setting, but,

Speaker 2:

Well because I think maybe it's because before I reread this one, cause I think I had this on hold, I got a hold of the witch tree symbol. Oh yeah. Yeah. And she goes to like Amish town around. Interesting. Shes like near the Amish.

Speaker 1:

That could also still be Midwest though. Like when I, I, I guess I just think of Pennsylvania, the towns that are near Champaign Illinois, there's

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's true.

Speaker 1:

Lots of Amish population there. Okay.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. There's a good size Amish population on the western side of Michigan. So it could still be Midwest. Yeah. Yeah. Or it could be Maryland. Yeah. Or Pennsylvania. So Maryland. Pennsylvania. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I may have also conflated it with Millie Benson having spent time in like Iowa mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So I may have just kind of had that bleed over cuz I don't remember when I was a kid that I was ever like, where does Nancy live? Like, yeah, you don't care. It's just she lives in River Heights. I think we touched on this a little bit at the beginning when we were talking about our rereads and the first time we read it. But why did Nancy resonate for the two of you?

Speaker 2:

I think it was just really fun and interesting to see like a female character, especially one that was so young, so therefore like a little closer in age to you as when you're reading it. I think it was just really like interesting, fun, new and exciting. It's the kind of character that you wish you were a lot like, like the kind of person that you would like fantasize. Like, oh, like maybe if I were in any of these situations, like would I get out and like, I think it's so like interesting that she does and she helps so many people along the way and she's always the one, yes.<laugh>, I was saying a lot about her sleuthing not being so great, but one thing that she will do is she'll get to the bottom of something. Like she will see it through to the end. And I thought, I think that that's probably a characteristic of hers that's very admirable.

Speaker 3:

She's smart, she's quick on her feet. She does not back down. And for a nine year old that was really, really like an amazing thing to see because before I found those books, I've been reading stuff like the borrowers, um, encyclopedia Brown, a lot of stuff by Beverly Cleary, which really just didn't even, you know, was easy to read, but the stories were so easy and gentle and here's somebody in the mix. And at nine I wasn't looking at it with a critical lie. She was doing some stuff. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And I, I think that if you gave this to a nine year old now, I think a nine year old would probably think the same way. You know, this, here's a big girl getting it done. And it was really my first, uh, foray into serious mysteries. You know, actual mysteries. I mean, I think that's why she resonated.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's true. Cause I almost was gonna say like, but I think nine year olds now have more characters to choose from. They do. But yeah, I, I think that even for that age group, she's still like very palatable. Like it's not so like above that audience level that it's just really easy. It's just really easy to consume and then also to like just see the admirable qualities in her. But again, it's not gonna be something that's so complex that someone's not gonna get it. Right. So I think that's why it's still, I would see like why she's still on enduring character.

Speaker 1:

She has tenacity, she goes on adventures. They're very much the American girl books that we did. We talked a little bit about how like most of them weren't particularly well written. They were very, very plotty. They're very implausible. Like these kids, it's like where are the parents? Like where are the adults in this situation? This is slightly more plausible because she's old, she has a car, you know? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>,<laugh> like that, that gives you a lot more, um, yeah. You know, mobility in terms of the kinds of adventures that you can have. Um, and she does it all while like, you know, being perfectly put together and like everyone admires Nancy, like literally everyone that she encounters is like, Nancy, you're the greatest. They're very dated. But at the same time, I still kind of get it because we go very young with these, they're chapter books. Right. I think it's meant younger. I think it's really meant for a third grader that reads pretty well. Or even a second grader that reads well and wants something that isn't the soft story about a mouse or, you know, story about a child their age. They want a little bit more grit to it. They want something exciting, scary, um, and they want a girl doing it and not a boy.

Speaker 3:

And what's kind of interesting too is she's 16 or 18 depending on which version you read. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>,

Speaker 1:

She's blonde or a redhead<laugh>. Right.

Speaker 3:

But this, these books were not written for the age group that she is. Right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, they were not written for 18 year olds. There's no 18 year old is gonna read this and just, I can't wait to read that.

Speaker 1:

No. And I can't imagine that when these were contemporary that anyone that age was reading them.

Speaker 3:

I don't think, no. My mother was was 10.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And that was the impression I got from my mom too, was she started me on them early because she had had them as a girl. Like, and she admired Nancy when she was a voracious little reader like me. And so, you know, there is something resonant about sharing something cross generationally about with a book as well. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> because you and I both had that experience, like getting it from somebody older than us that enjoyed it when they were a child and put it into your hands. And I remember like the anticipation of getting to go to b Dalton bookstore.

Speaker 3:

Wow. B Dalton

Speaker 1:

Pick out a Nancy Drew. Like we didn't have a lot of money. So that was a huge treat when I got to actually buy a book and not get it from the library. Right. And I was so proud of my yellow spine collection lined up all perfect on my shelf. And like, to me that was really like a mark of the kind of person I was and the kind of reader I was and like what I could do. And so, I don't know, I do think that it still maybe works and they do check out still. Like, oh yeah, they still circulate. So they are working for kids still. I would in a way that just reading it, you're kinda like, this is not good. But it's not meant for us.

Speaker 3:

If I just recommended it last week to a, to a lady who was like, I, I've gotta, I've got a fourth grader that that reads well, likes mysteries. Let me introduce you to Nancy Drew. Well,

Speaker 1:

And how many books did you tear through after Nancy Drew? We talked about Agatha Christie, but like, there were certainly things that I read at the time that were just mimicking Nancy Drew the Trixie Belden books.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

But I didn't the mag

Speaker 3:

Books, I was too old for those. I went to Sherlock Holmes after this. Yeah. And

Speaker 1:

He, he was hard. So we all graduated

Speaker 3:

<laugh>. Yeah. He was harder. He was harder. And then behind that Agatha Christie, which I just, I couldn't get enough aga of Christie neither.

Speaker 1:

It wasn't possible. I did the same thing. She was my more grown version of Nancy Drew. I had went to every like, used bookstore. I would get every title. I could buy it for myself. My friend and I made a trivia game about Agatha Christi. And again, it was like very aspirational for me. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> that said something about me that was important.

Speaker 3:

Miss Marple means a lot to me now. Miss

Speaker 1:

Marple means a lot to me now too. She did that as well. She

Speaker 3:

Means a lot to me now. But yeah, I, she was my first foray into, into Mysteries, which I, I, I like mysteries, but I don't, as dated as they are, I don't see any reason not to introduce them to a voracious young reader who's looking for something different from the borrowers. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, which by the way was a good book. But you know, after a while those little people under the floor, it's time to move on to something else. And this was a great way to move on.

Speaker 1:

It does make me curious now, like to talk the next time I see a kid taking one of these to talk to them and just ask them about it.

Speaker 3:

I think the, the general story is still really good. We're able, because we're grown to pick out a lot of those things and go, well yeah, you wouldn't do this, you wouldn't do that. But if you're nine you're not paying attention to any of that. Yeah. We just read and you're having a ball.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I think the foundation is there. I think that if a kid comes in, oftentimes, I mean I'll still recommend Nancy Drew, but I'll mostly recommend the graphic novels. Cause I thought they were pretty good. Like I thought they were pretty good for, for a graphic novel. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> until like, you know, if a kid's not really interested in reading, I always recommend a graphic novel so that they at least start to build up a, a love of reading and I don't know, I think it's still held up well. They definitely modernized it, but those like key characteristics are still there. So then you're still introducing a new generation to, you know, the idea of Nancy Drew and if they wanted to go back and kind of see the history of that character, then they can go and check out these books. Interestingly enough though, the person that I feel like has been checking them a lot out, at least from the Beltsville library, has been like an older customer.

Speaker 1:

Interesting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And I

Speaker 1:

It's a no nostalgia thing. Thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It was a nostalgia thing and she wanted to like read them again like in order.

Speaker 1:

Mm. Yeah. And I will say that oftentimes when I've given the book to somebody, it's been a kid accompanied by an adult and same with Encyclopedia Brown. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like that is usually a series that a kid is not independently asking for. It's cuz they came in with their dad and their dad is like, Hey, my son I think would really like these books. Do you have any of these? I read them when I was a kid. I guess one of my, my worries is like, there's zero representation of anyone who's not like white in this book at all. Right. So I don't know that I love that. And I do think, you know, we did Westing Game for the podcast and that, that's a mystery that I would have no hesitance putting into a kid's hand because there is representation in the book. Even though it's an old book. It's a 50 year old

Speaker 3:

Book. Well maybe you give it and something else so that they get a, they get kind of a, a back and a forth mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, but I think they have value in that It is a strong female protagonist. You can't take that away from it. And she is bright and she does make some really good common sense kinds of moves. And there's nothing wrong with learning that. And if the person's parent is involved now, now, because Heather, I know you would be this person you would say to Peanut, you know what, I just want you to know that this is not how things are now. It's a great story, but this is now things are now I, I'll tell you the other day with my mom, we were watching something called How to Steal 1,000,019 66 movie that star Peter Otu and Audrey Hepburn and I sat there and picked that movie apart because there were so many things in that movie that were so wrong. But it was 1966 and nobody paid any attention. I mean he, he assaults this woman on more than one occasion, but because he's a man, she sws instead of saying, what are you doing? Get off me, you just, you don't get to just kiss me like that. But in 1966, you know that that was, she, she was spooning because he was such a nice looking man when he was being a bonehead. That's where I think, uh, an adult eye comes in and says, okay, this is a great story but let's not forget these things because you're not gonna see this now. And that means that parents are paying attention to what their children are reading, which some parents do. And some parents are just glad they got a book.

Speaker 1:

Well and I'm saying that I do also think that, at least for me, this was one of my early introductions to serialized storytelling. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so following a us the same character throughout, I mean I think Ramona was probably another one that going back to Beverly Cleary where there were multiple Ramona books and, but this sort of episodic serialized book, it does not matter if you read the first Nancy Drew book, you can start at number 50 and you'll be fine seeing how something's structured like that. I think there is some value in terms of maturing as a reader. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> because you see what devices they use every time. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> like, you know, you're always gonna get this description of Nancy in the first chapter. You're always gonna get this type of plot element is gonna hap happen for it to be a Nancy Drew. And I think maybe there's some value in that. There aren't a ton of books for this young that are serialized but episodic like that. There's this, there's babysitters club. Like yes we have like the J series books, but a lot of those a very low for the kids. Like it's all about fairies. It's all about puppies that have these magic powers. It's that's true. It's very Childlike, right? Yes. It's, this feels more mature. Mm-hmm

Speaker 3:

<affirmative>, I think you're right.

Speaker 1:

Understand, I'm trying to come to bat for you Nancy. Understand,

Speaker 3:

Understand plot a little bit differently and what a real protagonist is like, maybe more so than the Bernstein Bears or something like that. Because I agree. I think a lot of the children's books, especially if a kid is a really good reader, are just dumbed down.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And,

Speaker 3:

And they don't need to be

Speaker 1:

And they take things. There is no sense of danger. There is no, I mean for us as adults, there's no sense of danger in this. We know Nancy's not going to get murdered and the, because the book won't finish. But when you're a kid, the first time you read a book like that, there's real peril there. You haven't learned that. Well of course she survives for the next book because she's gonna be fine. 50 more books. Yeah. And like having like true bad guys, like the bad guys in this are actual bad guys. Yeah. Like you have criminals and then you have like the white collar criminal. There's legit bad guys in this. Even if they don't make sense cuz that thievery ring like, oh yeah, that was a side plot I guess technically, yeah. What is happening? Because I thought initially I was like, well surely they're doing this at the behest of the tops. They're looking for this clock or they're No, they were their

Speaker 3:

Own.

Speaker 1:

They're, they were just running their own fiy racket but like chose to rip off two old ladies that were told are poor. Right. Why? Like you get the summer cottage thing, great. Go, go rob the rich people. Why are you robbing those two? Poor old lady. That was bizarre. Yeah, but it's a legit bad guy. Right? Like it's a bad guy with teeth and you don't have that in between fairy tales where you get a monster bag guy most of the time. Or the evil stepmom. Then you have that long period of childhood where we don't really do bad guys cuz it's too scary. You'll get bad guys when you hit fifth grade kind of thing.<laugh>, this gives you bad guys. So like you have much more of an antagonist. That's scary. You know, there's actual plot to this. It's not just like, I don't know, maybe there's value in that. It made, it made us able to read much more mature

Speaker 3:

Yes.<laugh>

Speaker 1:

And a lot of it mystery fiction. So

Speaker 3:

And it was a jumping off point too. Yeah. To some other things. So yeah,

Speaker 1:

I think it's kind of doing something<laugh>.

Speaker 3:

Each episode we are heading into the library and talking to you, well not you, but people like you right here in the stacks today. We want to know who is your favorite fictional detective.

Speaker 2:

Now let's talk to someone who actually knows something about one of the main topics covered in this book. Lawyers

Speaker 4:

All Rise.

Speaker 1:

So Andrea, you are an attorney. Yes

Speaker 3:

Ma'am.

Speaker 1:

I wanted to ask for your impressions on Carson Drew as an attorney in this book.

Speaker 3:

<laugh>. So Carson Drew doesn't seem to understand attorney client privilege at all. He talks about anything with his kid and that's, that's completely outta outta control. The whole point to client attorney privilege is that you can say these things. Yes, I murdered the woman next door. And you don't tell anybody that because you need to keep that to yourself so that you can build the case that you need to build and you can't trust somebody else. Not even your child who you think is exceptional<laugh> with those kinds of, with those kind, with that kind of information that's, well basically you can lose your license behind stuff like that. So he's just, he does whatever and he uses this kid really to help him to do these things and he shouldn't be using this kid to do. So he's, he's an attorney in, in name<laugh>.

Speaker 1:

Well I also wanted to ask about the potential conflict of interest because Nancy uncovers this will and it is at least somewhat based on Carson telling her that he overheard the man's attorney talking to him about a will. Right. And then that being confirmed by that attorney and the judge that like there was talk of a will and there might be a second will. Nancy finds the will at which point Carson drew is then hired by the executors of the will, which is the bank.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. That's, that's seriously attorney. That's, that's that's uh, definitely a conflict of interest.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. That seemed very dicey to me. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's funny how

Speaker 3:

They had the story at the end. It made the story go all together. But I don't, they would never have done that with, with him. Especially because there were too many things going on with him, having his kid find the will, you know, basically she steals a clock to find the, the thing that takes'em to the will. Now the will itself, the will itself was fine because if you can rewrite your will, so that part was fine, but how they got to it and, and who was doing what they were doing with it, he should never have been involved in that. So yeah, it was a conflict interest.

Speaker 1:

Would the toms have had any case to overturn that will

Speaker 3:

No, the will stood alone. So, um, you, you can rewrite your will until your last breath.

Speaker 1:

So there's no fruits of a poison tree issue with the will being discovered through dodgy tactic.

Speaker 3:

18 years a child. It needed to be found. But there, but, but it was, it was dated March. It was, it was obviously done by someone who was he? He, he was sick but he was of of of san mind and he also made it known to somebody that there was a, there was another will that had these things in there. I'm gonna take care of all the poor people in town with this will, so the will is soft stood and so all they had to do was prove that he'd written it. And in 19

Speaker 1:

They did a handwriting comparison.

Speaker 3:

Did a handwriting

Speaker 1:

Comparison at the bank.<laugh>.

Speaker 3:

Right. They did a handwriting comparison. That's what you would've done in, you know, and so the wood, the will would stand so the will was gonna do its own thing. No matter what they, they could contest it. The date wasn't gonna allow them to win. So the will was gonna stand on its own. The finding of it was

Speaker 1:

Dicey. Well thank you very much for your expertise.

Speaker 2:

But that's so funny cuz I was thinking like how different the reread was. Cause as a child I didn't care. And then now I'm just like, all you're saying is that Crowley like knew how to write a will, but what does that mean? Like, I kept having these questions and I wanted them to answer it, but I'm like, of course it's not gonna delve into that. Cause that's not the point. The point is that she found the will, it stands and these people are now gonna get their money.

Speaker 1:

I was just like, the tops are gonna get Carson drew dis barred after this. Like,

Speaker 3:

Well, I mean they could gone after him for some other things, but not, but not for the will. But

Speaker 1:

The will would've been fine, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, we are going to take a Buzzfeed quiz today asking which character from the Nancy Drew universe are you interesting to note that this quiz was written by someone named Mildred. Cool probably not Mildred Benson because I believe she's deceased, but maybe it's an homage to her. You are out camping when suddenly someone is bitten by a snake. You were probably the one bitten by the snake. Sterilize your pocket knife and make two quick cuts at the bite to let the poison drain off. Faint. Regardless of whether you were the one bitten by a snake. I went camping. Are you sure?

Speaker 2:

<laugh>?

Speaker 3:

It's okay. Uh, I don't like snakes.<laugh>,

Speaker 1:

Are you fainting?

Speaker 2:

Yeah,

Speaker 3:

I'm probably fainting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, just I don't know that I would be that resourceful in that situation. How do you sterilize your pocket knife? Is it

Speaker 1:

Fire?

Speaker 2:

Okay, so you just had

Speaker 1:

To, or booze? If you have booze with you. If you have booze, that's true. One or the other. But I, I don't think that this is, is actually what you would want to do if you were bitten by a snake. Like there's no way that that's gonna go well and now you're just like moving around opening up wounds. No, you should just go to a hospital

Speaker 2:

<laugh> someone of the option. Get

Speaker 1:

The antibe. So I guess I'm bitten by the snake because I'm not doing this with my knife cuz that's a bad idea.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I thought it's faint. Although it reminds me of the fact that for the longest time, and I think it was because of pop culture, didn't, people used to think you were supposed to like suck support

Speaker 1:

Sex of venom. Yeah. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I have no problems with snakes so I guess, I mean I pick snakes up when I find them, so I probably got bitten. I would not pick up a venomous snake though, so I guess I like stepped on something terrible. There's a man who won't stop following you around. He is probably trying to keep you from meddling in his criminal enterprise. Desperately in love with you. Lost or about to get a rude awakening.

Speaker 2:

I think I'm going for trying to keep you from meddling in his criminal enterprise. I think I'd make up some sort of story like that.<laugh> in my head.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I'm thinking he somebody needs a restraining order.<laugh>. I think it, I think it's criminal enterprise too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think so too. I though I'm sort of tempted by about to get a rude awakening. Maybe I'll go with that one. Just to a mysterious clerk at a perfume counter seems unwilling to sell you a particular scent. You keep pushing until she lets you buy it. It smells amazing on you. Why am I at a perfume counter? Ask why she's so reluctant to sell it to you. Walk away. Perfume is expensive anyways.

Speaker 3:

Hmm. Why are you so reluctant to sew

Speaker 1:

It?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Same like lady, you are a salesperson. Why would you not let me buy?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they actually like push it on you. Cuz I remember there was this one lady that's like, you're really gonna love this one. And I was like, I'm so certain I won't. And she still took my wrist, put it on. Yeah. And then I was like nauseous the rest of the day. Cuz I don't really like fruity perfumes like that. I was pretty mad in that day.

Speaker 3:

<laugh> before I had my coffee attack. I would say, you know, why are you not gonna sell this to me?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. It's bizarre behavior. It is. Yeah. The ghost of a young woman has said to haunt the end that you're staying in waiting for her long lost fiance. That's romantic nonsense. Suspicious, spooky.

Speaker 3:

You can't say two answers, can you<laugh>?

Speaker 1:

No.

Speaker 3:

Well then I'll go with romantic.

Speaker 2:

My first inclination was nonsense.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that would be mine as well. I would like the ghost. Like think that would be cool. Yeah. Just being the haunted end. But yeah,

Speaker 2:

I would also just be like, you know, move on. There's peace at the end. Right.

Speaker 1:

<laugh>. Okay. People who don't like you might say that you never met a sandwich you didn't like, are so blunt that it's rude. Can't keep your nose out of other people's business. Have your head in the clouds.

Speaker 2:

Hmm hmm. I don't think these are any of like misjudgments that anyone has had about me.

Speaker 1:

I guess I'm gonna say can't keep your nose out of other people's business. I think mine is

Speaker 2:

Gonna be too blunt for me. I think it's also can't keep your nose out of other people's mo um, other people's business. Prob I don't know. I just ask a lot of questions. Yeah. And that's not cuz I'm trying to be in people's business. I think that's just how I,

Speaker 1:

I think I know a lot about other people's business cuz people just tell me things and they tell you. But that would definitely do. People that don't like me appear like, oh, I am meddling or something. People who do like you tend to describe you as clever, kind, loyal, brave, loyal.

Speaker 2:

<laugh>. I'm kind of stuck. Um, I think maybe, oh, can we come back to me?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'll go brave. I think I'm like full Gryffindor on this one. So

Speaker 2:

Gryffindor, people who do like me see me as maybe loyal

Speaker 1:

After a busy morning of investigating a mystery. You definitely need a break for a shower and a fresh set of clothes. A chance to check in with your friends a Sunday. You don't need a break. I don't need a break. Yeah, I don't need a break. Especially if I'm doing a mystery. Like I just wanna keep going.

Speaker 2:

Sorry. Um, so let's see.<laugh>, I feel like yeah, I don't need a break cuz you're right. If it is a mystery, I'm gonna want to like continue it to let

Speaker 1:

End. Yeah. I'd be invested at that point. Like, I wanna keep going. Okay. You can't stand hours and hours of shopping indecisive people more than three hours without food. Injustice, indecisive people.

Speaker 2:

<laugh>. I think I'm good with injustice.

Speaker 1:

I think I will too. But actually I, I don't like any of these things.<laugh>.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I feel like the older I've gotten, I don't really care for shopping as much.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Not, not my jam. I don't, I don't care. And hours of it sounds horrible.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I hate not eating. So get saying those. They're all bad.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I'm always like snacking on something, but

Speaker 1:

Like, I feel like they also pale in comparison to injustice. Yeah.<laugh>, like me being hangry or injustice, I probably should go with injustice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Honestly, one of the best days of your life was wait the day you realized you were falling in love with your partner the day you really kicked at your job and got that promotion. You can't pick one. All the golden days that blur together from growing up with your best friends or the day that you realized something you worked really hard on truly helped someone else more than you ever knew before.

Speaker 3:

That would be

Speaker 2:

Mine. Yeah. I think the last one for me too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Agree. All right. Who'd everybody get?

Speaker 2:

Nancy Drew,

Speaker 3:

Nancy, drew,

Speaker 1:

<laugh>. We're all Nancy. Nancy. Yes. You are the queen herself. The undisputed super sleuth and the kick detective. Your clever, resourceful, assertive and classy af You have zero time for anyone's dish. Your, your hair is as impeccable as your manners, but you're not afraid to get dirty to get the job done. You have a habit of being suspicious of new people, including your steady boyfriend Ned, when you first met him you assumed he was stealing your car. But deep down you just want what's best for the people you love. You'll do anything to make that happen. Even if it means getting locked up and left to die in an abandoned summer bungalow. Don't worry, you'll escape. You win. Nancy. Yay. Yes. Oh, yay.

Speaker 2:

Yes. That was nice after getting Mr. Bennett

Speaker 1:

<laugh>. Yes. No, that was really a downer. Yeah, it really was. Especially since we like really hated Mr. Bennett<laugh>.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's rough stuff.

Speaker 3:

Each episode we ask whether our book passes the Beal test. The Betal test asks whether a work features two female characters who talk to each other about something that doesn't involve men or boys. So does it pass?

Speaker 1:

Yes. Yes. Yes. She definitely talks to the Turners about Judy's tragic boating, accident, dead parents and Judy's upbringing. She talks to the sisters about Allison getting voice lessons. She talks to Abby Row about how she has no food.

Speaker 3:

<laugh>, she talks to Helen and gets, goes to the, but she Summer camp. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

<affirmative>. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

In fact, she really doesn't talk about no boys or men at all. I

Speaker 1:

Mean, I guess she talks about the will a lot and it's Josiah Crowleys. But no, mostly she's not talking about guys. Mm-hmm. And Ned's not in this book, so No. Yeah, no boys

Speaker 2:

Talk about say<laugh>. I was like, there's no romantic interest.

Speaker 1:

There's no love interest at all. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3:

<affirmative>.

Speaker 2:

All right. Well that's it for this episode of these books. Made me join us next time when we'll discuss a book in which it's a truth. Universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife. If you think you know which book we're tackling next, drop us a tweet or at pgc mls on Twitter and hashtag these books made me.