These Books Made Me... kind of upset to be honest. This week we're tackling local-at-one-point author Ann Brashares and her homage to pretty much everything that was wrong about the late 90s, The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. This episode has everything: a book with casual racism in the second paragraph, really dodgy hygiene practices, flirting with your stepbrother, a love story that takes place internationally because it would have been illegal in the US, a heartbreaking cancer death, and more body image issues than Seventeen magazine.
These Books Made Me is a podcast about the literary heroines who shaped us and is a product of the Prince George's County Memorial Library System podcast network. Stay in touch with us via Twitter @PGCMLS with #TheseBooksMadeMe or by email at TheseBooksMadeMe@pgcmls.info. For recommended readalikes and deep dives into topics related to each episode, visit our blog at https://pgcmls.medium.com/.
We cover a lot of ground in this episode and used some books and articles as jumping off points. Here’s a brief list of some of them if you want to do your own further research:
It was tough having a body in the late 90s!
https://annehelen.substack.com/p/the-millennial-vernacular-of-fatphobia
The OG Traveling Pants:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/04/the-worlds-oldest-pants-are-a-3000-year-old-engineering-marvel/
Please wash your pants (especially jeans you share with your friends for a whole summer)!
https://www.vice.com/en/article/pg5b3n/how-many-days-can-you-wear-the-same-pair-of-underwear
These Books Made Me... kind of upset to be honest. This week we're tackling local-at-one-point author Ann Brashares and her homage to pretty much everything that was wrong about the late 90s, The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. This episode has everything: a book with casual racism in the second paragraph, really dodgy hygiene practices, flirting with your stepbrother, a love story that takes place internationally because it would have been illegal in the US, a heartbreaking cancer death, and more body image issues than Seventeen magazine.
These Books Made Me is a podcast about the literary heroines who shaped us and is a product of the Prince George's County Memorial Library System podcast network. Stay in touch with us via Twitter @PGCMLS with #TheseBooksMadeMe or by email at TheseBooksMadeMe@pgcmls.info. For recommended readalikes and deep dives into topics related to each episode, visit our blog at https://pgcmls.medium.com/.
We cover a lot of ground in this episode and used some books and articles as jumping off points. Here’s a brief list of some of them if you want to do your own further research:
It was tough having a body in the late 90s!
https://annehelen.substack.com/p/the-millennial-vernacular-of-fatphobia
The OG Traveling Pants:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/04/the-worlds-oldest-pants-are-a-3000-year-old-engineering-marvel/
Please wash your pants (especially jeans you share with your friends for a whole summer)!
https://www.vice.com/en/article/pg5b3n/how-many-days-can-you-wear-the-same-pair-of-underwear
Oh, away we go. Darlene, you have to start< laugh>.
Darlene:< laugh>. I'm so sorry. I was like trying to fiddle with this mic. Hi, I'm Darlene.
Hawa:I'm Hawa.
Heather:I'm Heather.
Darlene:And this is our podcast, These Books Made Me. Today we're gonna be talking about the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants by Ann Brashares. Friendly warning. As always, this podcast contains spoilers. If you don't yet know who invades someone's swimming hole, proceed with caution content. Warning, this episode contains discussions of childhood illness, death, sexuality, and sexual assault. This episode is rated T for teen. We have a special guest this week. Could you introduce yourself?
Maria:Hi, I'm Maria, and I work at the Hyattsville Branch.
Speaker 1:And you're back. You were on another.
Maria:And I'm back.
:That's right.< laugh>.
Maria:I'm back again. Uh, jumping in, what did this book mean to you? Was this everyone's first time reading? If not, how'd this reread compare to your memories of reading it when you were younger?
Heather:So I was pretty positive. I read this when it came out. I, I stand by that even though I really didn't remember anything but the broad strokes of it. This reread was rough<laugh>, I didn't really remember it. So there, there was nothing so much to compare it to. But yeah, this, this was a slog for me.
Speaker 3:So for me, this was my first time reading it. But I remember when the mo- first movie came out. Is there more than one movie? I don't know. I remember when the movie came out, like a couple years after this book and like, it was like a really big thing. It was everywhere. I, I think I might have seen it. I remember like bits and pieces of it. And I do remember that America Ferrera was in it. That was the extent of my memory of Sisterhood, of the Traveling Pants when I was younger. So this is really my first time taking in the story and reading it. So it was interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was not my first time reading it. I definitely remember reading it. I wanna say it was in high school. I really liked the series as a kid. I was reading it now and I don't really know why< laugh> anymore.< laugh>, like why I liked it. But I, and then I also remember vividly seeing the movie and I actually do have it on DVD cuz I was always really big into like sisterhood type, like shows or movies. So I think that aspect got me. And then it also had Alexis Blechdel and I was a really big Gilmore Girls fan at the time,<laugh>, uh, so they had a built-in audience with me. So yeah, not my first time reading it. I enjoyed it a lot as a kid. I'm very critical of it now as an adult. And I am excited for the discussion on this book.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm the same. I read it when I was younger. I can't remember if I saw the movie first or if I read it first, but I remember it being like a huge thing, introduction for like summer romance books for me as well. But this was definitely not what I remembered at all.< laugh>.
Heather:Well, I guess before we dive into that, I will try to give us a quick plot summary here. Four 15 year old sisters from different mothers experience the ups and downs of adolescents. Over the course of an eventful summer, Carmen kicks off the summer of the pants by locating said pants at a Georgetown thrift store. Sorry, y'all. Georgetown thrift store.<laugh>
Speaker 5:< laugh>.
Speaker 1:The jeans magically fit all four of the girls perfectly in spite of their differing body types. Curvy Carmen, tall and Athletic, Bridget, quirky Tibi and modelesque all find that the pants suit their bodies and personality beautifully when they try them on. The four girls make a pact to share the pants over the summer, since they will all be separated for the first summer ever. Each of the girls experiences drama over the summer that changes her outlook on life. Carmen visits her fairly non-res father in South Carolina and discovers he has a new perfect family in life. There that doesn't include her. She feels ostracized for not looking like her new family. She's Puerto Rican, they're white, and she lashes out flirting with her stepbrother to upset his girlfriend, criticizing Lydia's wedding dress and finally chucking a rock through their window before running away and returning to DC she eventually realizes that while she's hurt and extremely angry at her father, she wants to try to make things work and wears the jeans to his wedding. To Lydia. Lena, the introverted artist of the group, is tired of being the pretty one. She spends the summer in Greece with her grandparents and freaks out When neighborhood heartthrob Costos accidentally catches her skinny dipping, believing Costos has assaulted Lena. Her grandfather punches Costos grandfather and Estranges the two families. Lena tries to repair the damage she is caused and realizes she's in love with Costos. Before returning to the states, Tibi hates her job, hates her boss, and hates pretty much everything about her summer until she meets Bailey, a 12 year old girl dying of cancer. Together they film the scu. Tibi has wanted to film before Bailey's decline in eventual death caused Tibi to realize that some of the people she's been mocking are pretty decent people. After all, Toby's Guinea pig also dies, which sends Tibi into a deep depression until Carmen shakes her out of it to send her to Bailey's deathbed. Bridget goes to soccer camp in Mexico where she relentlessly pursues one of her coaches. Eric, in spite of their age difference and a rule against fraternization, Bridget's behavior becomes increasingly reckless and impulsive until she finally spends the night with Eric. He breaks things off with her and she is shattered. Lena flies out to take care of her. The book concludes with the girls reuniting and sharing their experiences during the summer of the pants as they reaffirm their love and commitment to each other.
Maria:A little bit about the author: Ann Brashares is originally local to the D MV area and was born in Alexandria, Virginia on July 30th, 1967. She grew up in Chevy Chase, Maryland with three brothers and attended the Quaker School Sidwell Friends before going to Barnard College in Manhattan to study philosophy. Brashares took a job as an editor following her graduation in 1989 and remained in New York City. She had originally planned to work for a year and then return a graduate school in philosophy, but enjoyed the editing profession too much to follow through on that plan. Brashares married Jacob Collins, an artist she had met at Barnard, and they have four children together. Samuel, Nathaniel, Susanna, and Isaiah. She began to start writing in addition to editing, although Brashares worked on a couple works of non-fiction, she was interested in writing for young adults and published the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.
Speaker 4:In 2001, it told the story of four friends, Lena, Tibby, Bridget Herman, and a pair of jeans that somehow magically manages to fit each of them. In turn, this would become the first installment in the six book series. The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants was fo llowed by the second summer of the Sisterhood, 2003, then Girls in Pants 2005, forever in Blue, 2007, three Willows 2009, and Sisterhood Everlasting. 2011 eleven's also released a collection of short stories in 2005 to accompany the other books entitled, keep In Touch. Rasher seems to have embraced being known as a Traveling Pants author, as a Twitter buyer. Reads, have Pants, will travel Further Markers of its success include the first sisterhood book, receiving the Book Sense Book of the Year award in 2002 and a 2005 film from Warner Brothers. In a 2005 interview with her alma mater, Cher's listed Judy Bloom and her portrayals of Teenage Girlhood as great influences on her writing.
Speaker 3:Thank you guys so much for that plot summary and the author bio. All right, so now let's get into the discussion.
Speaker 6:I think that tonight we're the sisters of these sisters of the pants. Yes.
Speaker 3:Yes. So I feel like you can't talk about the sisterhood of the traveling pants without talking about portrayals of body image in this book. I mean, the whole concept is these pair of pants that they have, and it happens to fit all four of these girls who have seemingly different body types and that makes the pants magical.
Speaker 6:Call me crazy, but it's scientifically impossible that a pair of pants could fit me and me, and me and me.
Speaker 3:My initial thought is that these girls must not be that far off from each other if they can all fit this pair of pants. But also, I think it's not really necessarily about that, but like how they're portrayed to be extremely different. I don't know, what do you guys think about that? Like, that wasn't really a question. I'm sorry.<laugh>.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I think when I had read the books, I, I think I thought about it more realistically, like similarly where I thought maybe they all had similar-ish body type, but obviously after seeing the movie and then rereading it, I guess, I don't know, I guess I took it more and they call it magical pants. So I guess maybe there's like a magical realism aspect to it. So yeah, I, it is really interesting, I think, to read this book now and just get a sense of how, I guess how much they talk about their body image and how they feel about each other. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and, and I, and they kind of know like every, they know each other's like hot feelings about their bodies as well. I, it felt very like early two thousands, like I felt like everything in the late nineties and early two thousands when it came to books and TV shows had this really weird obsession with bodies. Nothing that was included in this book felt out of place. I don't think that I was necessarily hearing all of that in real life, but I was seeing it a lot in pop culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I guess for me, I mean, the naval gazing certainly does not seem out of place for any time as a teenage girl. I mean, I think your body is changing. Everyone else's bodies around you are changing. You're acutely aware of living inside your own skin during that age. And I think that that's accurate. I think bringing up what you did about pop culture at the time, Darlene is, makes it a little bit more palatable to me, I guess as a reflection of that. Because as I was reading the book, the girls and their thoughts about themselves and like knowing each other's hangups about their own bodies, that made sense to me. Like that resonates. Like I think everybody's lived with that as a teenager. What didn't seem real to me was the level of scrutiny that every character in the book really had about everyone else's bodies around them. It's constant, you don't get a single woman in this book that there's not some critical mention of her appearance. You know, it's, that's a,
Speaker 2:That's a good point,
Speaker 1:Lydia, the year old arms and like, she looks bad in the wedding dress to Carmen. The Yeah. It's the girl with cancer, like gets critiqued. Yeah. Like it is, every single woman that comes into this story gets a dig basically. And that to me was not true to my experience of being alive and being in my teens at the time that this, this book would've been written and like, was just a brutal read. Like if, if the, if the message of the book is supposed to be self-love, its means of doing that is to say everyone's body sucks. So just be okay with your own. I mean, like, that's the take home to me because it's relentless critique of appearance throughout the book, which does not seem like a self-love kind of know
Speaker 3:It's coming from everybody. Right. It's everybody. So it's not like it's coming from like one character that's supposed to be just like the mean girl character and there's like some kind of redemption or something, but everybody's doing it to everyone. Yep. Lena talks about how, oh, I thought my grandmother was gonna be this beautiful woman, woman when I met her and she was just
Speaker 1:Dumpy and had gross toenails and she's wearing like bad shoes. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like you just met her<laugh>,
Speaker 1:<laugh> and Tibi who's like, I I think presented as the one that would probably be the least appearance. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> concerned. She's also just brutal about how people look. She's going after the guys around her too. Yeah. Like she goes after the hair gel kid. She goes after the appearance of the poor video game kid. Like I,
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That the woman that's in the back room that works with her, like she talks about her hair and her nails and like, you know, she goes out of her way to make the woman sound trashy. Right.
Speaker 3:And I think maybe her interactions with Bailey kind of like allowed her to be a little less judgmental towards the end. But like overall, like the perceptions of like body image that most of the people have in this book are just like terrible. And then there's a whole thing with, she likes the guy Tucker, but then like by the end of the book, she just doesn't like him at all and he didn't really do anything to her Right
Speaker 1:Either. And like the end of the book, he becomes like very human and kind and like goes out of his way to be nice to her. And then she's like, whatever his hair gel looks stupid, I don't like him anymore. And it's like, where did that come from? Yeah.
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Yeah. That's where interesting that she worked as an editor because I, I feel like it should have been worked in a little bit more. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, like, I think she wanted us to get a sense that Bailey was right about her interpretation of Tucker. And I was like, that's fine. But nowhere did you really show Tucker doing anything bad?
Speaker 1:No. And, and facts. Andy becomes nice. Yeah. Like he actually does something thoughtful and caring and then she just shreds the dude for having hair gel.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, the worst thing that he did was to be insulted by her refusal, which is to show like, oh, he kind of assumed that she would just automatically say yes, but that was after the refusal. You don't get a sense of like why she really refused him. There's a part where it's saying that he kind of puts on ears. Right. And so, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Right. Because they're all teenagers and they all do that. And like TB has come, her character arc at the end of it is that she understands that she does the same thing. She judges people and like pushes them away and tries not to have a connection with people because really she's actually afraid of what it would be like if they really got to know her. So that was her character arc. So it was kind of, it was just kind of mean spirited for her to just, uh, not accept Tucker's.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I mean it's just very mixed messaging throughout the book in a way that's like really not fun to read for me. Yeah. Yeah. Like it, it just, you read the book and you're like, everyone is so mean. And I know that like, part of teenage years is the narcissism of it, right? Like, everything's about you when you're a teenager, you think everything is about you. You think everyone's looking at you, everyone cares. People don't, like, that's what you learn when you become an adult is like, everyone thinks it's about them. So no one's looking at you, but they never really get to that point. None of them do. It's still, everything's about me and they're not very nice people. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative>. Yeah. I think the messaging could have been stronger there because Yeah. I, I feel like if anyone learns anything at most it's to be, when it comes to body image specifically, cuz I, I thought like maybe at first it was harping on it because it would eventually kind of like lead to a resolution where like they all realize that maybe they're a bit too obsessed with how other people view them and how they view other people. But yeah, there was no resolution for it. So it just felt like just having digs at people constantly throughout the
Speaker 1:Book. And that's the humor, right? Yeah. Like the digs are used as humor and they're not funny. It
Speaker 4:Also talks about, about the friendship too. I mean it's, the huge message is friends, friends can be rude to each other. Friends can put you down. And what was interesting Elise was I think, um, with tbi, I mean, she wasn't chosen to be a cashier because of how she looked. They put the girl, the perky girl with the boobs to be cashier and her putting deodorants away. But I thought what was interesting was that Bailey's mom was the first person who was actually nice and didn't immediately judge Tibby. Even the paramedics judged her for having, um,
Speaker 3:Having her
Speaker 4:Wallet, having Bailey's wallet. But, uh, Bailey's mom didn't, her mom just took it. It was like, do you wanna see her? That was the first person. And I thought that was interesting, especially since Bailey also is like the main person who entering her teen years immediately puts up a front. Especially not wanting to be treated as someone weak.
Speaker 3:And even like, you know, when when Carmen meets her dad's surprise family for the first time, they're just like, oh, you're not what we expected kind of type thing. And even Carmen talks about how like she like seeing her dad with Paul, her, her soon to be stepbrother. She feels like they look more like a family than, than her and her dad do. When people even make commentary, like when they're at the soccer game and stuff like that. And I mean, even though that's not necessarily body image, it kind of is in a way because like even when they're talking about how they're like trying to get a dress made for Carmen and she, was it the seamstress that makes like a rude comment, oh, we're just gonna have to, I'm gonna have to start from scratch. I'm gonna need more fabric. I don't blame her for walking out. Cause that was really rude. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like what it totally was. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, and then Lydia does nothing in that moment. No, no. Nothing to like, at least, I don't know, like reassure Carmen or you know, to the dress maker and like maybe you cool it on that kind of language. But Yeah, I mean that's the weird part. It's like there are certain parts. We're supposed to think that these comments are mean and then there are times it's just supposed to be funny.
Speaker 1:Right. If they're making the comments, it's fine. But when other people are making the comments, it's cruel. Yeah. And like, I, I do wanna go back to it, Darlene said about like pop culture at the time, and there certainly was during that time period, like a, I mean even a monetization of cruelty about people's bodies. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. I mean you think about like Perez Hilton, who, I mean his whole shtick was like drawing in inappropriate comments on pictures of celebrities. Yeah. And like raking them over the coals for how they looked. And that was popular at the time. But I, I struggle with like saying that someone acting like that should be a role model for anyone or that that should be something we aspire to. And she definitely seems to be capturing the four of them as like a unit as this is what you should aspire to with friends. And it's like, but they're pretty mean, they're pretty terrible. Bridget I guess is not particularly mean to the others. Like she doesn't make as many of the body jabs. But the whole thing with Eric is awful. Like, awful, awful. Like any way you look at it, she's a bad person for doing that. Yeah. Like, just terrible. Like would not accept no. Has horrible boundaries. I was gonna say no boundaries whatsoever. Like it's real bad. Like is willing to like jeopardize his job, his freedom because if they had actually done that in California, he would've been potentially arrested for That's Mexico, that was a felony. Right? It's
Speaker 3:Mexico. It's,
Speaker 2:It's Mexico.
Speaker 1:But like if they had continued, like what? Oh,
Speaker 3:Oh yeah. What was her plan? He's from Yeah. Yeah. He's from, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like when they cross back into California to go home. Oh yeah. Now it's a felony. Yeah. Like I, it's bad
Speaker 3:She's old enough to know better.
Speaker 1:She, she knows a lot better. Like she should. And it worries me that the author doesn't seem to know better. And it's like that kind of threw out. It's like, I don't think the author knows that this is bad, that the characters are acting like this in some circumstances. Cause it's portrayed why it's bad, I guess.
Speaker 3:Because to me it seems like it's being portrayed like to the, to the teen young reader. Cuz I, I feel like as a teen young reader, it's just like, ooh, the chase of like an older guy. Like no, he's been very clear about why he's not interested and then like
Speaker 1:You're just, and she lies about her age and
Speaker 3:She lies about her age. Right. So she knew, she knew enough to lie. She knew there was a reason to lie about her age. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> because if he knew how old she really was, he would be like straight. I mean he was already like straight up. No, but he'd be turned off from that even more. Which means you know, you're doing something wrong.
Speaker 1:But for you was the end of the book, did you think that the author was telling girls, don't be like Bridget, that's horrible. Cuz I think it's still romanticizing what happened and saying like, absolutely. Look, this was Bridget's summer of exploration. Yeah. And she's gonna be okay. She's a little heartbroken right now, but it was worth it. It'll be okay. Her friends will like pick her up and it's like, no, this was a appalling conduct. Like she needs to be in therapy and they need to keep an eye on her. This is very troubling behavior. And if we're saying this is kind of cute, all of this that happened that like, this was like a meet cute with her coach and then ugh,
Speaker 3:And then nobody is nobody around her telling her like, chill out. Like that's not cool. Like, I know in the beginning they're like, they tell her like, oh, like the, the, the camp has an anti fraternization. And she just kind of played it off as like, well I'm gonna be the one to, to change, not change that, but I'm gonna be the one to like, you know, get him to change his mind. Get him to change his ways. Like girl no
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Well and the other girls, it was unclear to me cuz they're not very fleshed out the girls at the camp camp as to whether they were kind of egging her on or if they just thought that she was, that she was full of[inaudible] I can't think of a way to say that. That's not a bad word, but that like, she was talking big about something that really was not gonna happen. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so they were just going along with it. But like,
Speaker 2:I think there was a bit of she
Speaker 1:Like, I wanna bang him. I'm gonna do it y'all I'm doing tonight, we're gonna do it. Like, and they're like, cool.
Speaker 3:What? Yeah. And then she comes back and they're like, so what happened? What happened? Yeah. Yeah. Did it happen?
Speaker 2:Like I don't think that Amber Becher's was necessarily at the end saying that it was a good thing. But I also agree with Heather that I don't think that she went far enough to say why and how it was bad and like the real steps that Bridget has to take in order to really heal whatever's going on with her. There's the fact that she's gone to therapy and that a therapist once said that she's single-minded to the point of recklessness or
Speaker 3:Something like
Speaker 2:That. Oh yes. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Yeah. So there are like points to say like, Bridget goes too far. And this is one of those times where again, she has gone too far and now she has to deal with the consequences. But yeah, it doesn't go far enough to say that how that she has to deal with those consequences. Cuz really the consequences just that Eric, you know, comes to a sense and it's like, we shouldn't have done that. Uh, that was really wrong and, but hit me up when you're 20. Like, no, that's not, that's not the conversation it should have been.
Speaker 3:He's also just not a good person as well because he's very much like, oh, this can't happen after it's happened. Right. So it's just kind of of like, okay. Like you, I don't know. I mean granted she wasn't respecting his boundaries either, but she was also, he would also say stuff like, yeah, I was hoping you'd actually stop by because then, you know, or I didn't want you to stop by because if you did, I know I wouldn't be able to control myself. Yeah. Like why are you saying those things?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But he said pretty explicitly we can't and she wouldn't stop mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Yeah. And like, and she lied about her age. Yeah. I mean this does not let him off the hook completely. But I do think if we framed this and this was, we reversed the genders on this, we wouldn't be making so many excuses for Bridget.
Speaker 3:Like Yeah. They, they're both just, they just suck.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, I, I think it's book sucks. It's really bad. And like should he have kept it in his pants? Absolutely. But it also wasn't okay that she wouldn't let him be. Yeah. Like he was not a willing participant early in this and she just kept going and kept going and lied and kept going. And it's like she's walking around in her underwear. Yeah. Like, what is going on with this girl
Speaker 3:<laugh>? Like that was her whole storyline. And then towards the end, her friend spends like$700 to come see her cuz she's heartbroken, but didn't really say what happened in letters. And I was just like, girl,
Speaker 4:I know we talked about a little of what the author was thinking regarding this, but if we look back too, at that time, pop culture early, mid two thousands if my pop, uh, history isn't far off. I think Hillary Duff was dating, uh, Joel Madden. She was 16 and he was 25. That's gross. And they dated for like a few years. But it was, it, it was reflective and no one was doing anything either.
Speaker 1:Um, but you also have to remember that 16 was the cutoff for age. That's true in a lot of states. Yeah. For, For what makes something statutory rape or not that like, once you're 16 you can magically like, make decisions about this. But if you're 15, you can't, and a lot of states had Romeo Juliet laws, which if it was 17 and 19 would've been covered in pretty much every state in the us. That would not have been a crime if Bridget was 17 and Eric was 19. Her being 15 and him being 19 was definitely a crime in California at the time. And it would've been a crime in many, many states. It would just be whether it's a felony or a misdemeanor. It like, she was playing with fire in a huge way and I just,
Speaker 3:She didn't care.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I mean, I, I worked sex abuse investigations mm-hmm.<affirmative> in the two thousands. And I, it's a very dangerous thing to romanticize the older man with the younger girl because it is just part of the predator handbook. They know how to spin it. It's romantic, you know, like, uh, it's not, it's not, it's predatory. Now in this book it was kind of inverted because Bridget was definitely the one that was going after him. Not the other way around initially. But to frame it that way at all, that like, this was, you know, the issue was the age. The issue wasn't their connection with each other. It wa it's like ooh. Like no.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it's weird cause it didn't have to be a sexual relationship. Right. Like it could have been just that she had really wanted him to like, I don't, I don't know. It could have been like, work itself to like a kiss and then he tells her like, like he lets her down and says, you know, we really can't, you know, maybe if you were older or something had that kind of talk. And I think it still would've been, I think for the most part the same story.
Speaker 4:I, I don't know why. I mean, biblically the woman's hair is like her beauty. You chop it off and it's a whole thing. But that was her weapon of choice too, which I thought was interesting that the author used Bridget's hair. Yeah. To seduce Eric. Like let loose with their hair tie<laugh> like
Speaker 1:Kevin. Now that was real goofy<laugh>. And then like, and that's even like when he's like, when he has his like broke back, I can't quit you moment with her. He's like grabbing handfuls of her hair. Oh yeah. Which is not like particularly romantic. It's just kind of weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was trying to, I was trying to visualize that. I was like, what?
Speaker 1:I know, like, I'm just like picturing him, like holding her by like Yeah. Big
Speaker 4:Deals.<laugh>, like<laugh>.
Speaker 1:It's very odd. I don't know. That was not a good description of anything. So strange
Speaker 4:Strategizing too. And it was just really bad. Whole thing. Or like Lena, Lena had her own tragedy too. Like she was like living her own Greek tragedy. She's too pretty<laugh> Greek tragedy.<laugh>.
Speaker 3:I'm just looking a little the worse, your worst problem in the world all the time is cuz you're too pretty.
Speaker 1:Like Well, I mean, to the point of the Greek tragedy, like her getting caught naked in the swimming hole is very like, oh that's, you know, that is the setup for how many myths where it's mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, somebody caught the, the dry ad bathing, somebody caught the nymph bathing and now it's a whole thing. I don't know. That was weird too because again, it's like Lena waits so long Yeah. To correct a really horrific life-changing misunderstanding That's bad. Y'all like, and then her
Speaker 3:Grandmother
Speaker 1:Don't let people all think that this guy's a rapist. He didn't do
Speaker 4:Anything. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then her grandmother's just like, yeah, I had a feeling. But you know, I, I feel like you tried to tell me in your own way. No. What does that even mean?
Speaker 1:You at all?
Speaker 3:Yo you were there for how many mo like weeks and you kind of just let it like, you know,
Speaker 1:Everyone think Costos is the village rapist.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then she goes from that to like, oh, we have the same spot at the pool pond and I saw you naked and now I'm in in love with you cuz I'm thinking about you and can't stop sketching you. What? I think this author has a very interesting way of like, making things try to come across as being romantic that really just Yeah. Aren't<laugh>
Speaker 1:<laugh> agree. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that was another thing where I think the film adaptation did a sort of better job, although mm-hmm.<affirmative> that warring families like Romeo and Juliet type thing was a little, it was a little overplayed, but that made more sense cuz they had more time. Right. Like they kind of like fell in love over the summer. Yeah. And well
Speaker 1:They actually like knew each other a little bit too. Yeah. Like
Speaker 2:They in the book, they
Speaker 1:Don't know anything about each other. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, like they have an astella. She
Speaker 1:Saw her naked and thought she was pretty before that and then she falls in love with him because he didn't correct the like, embarrassing mistake she made and let everyone think he was a rapist. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like yeah.
Speaker 1:That's, that's all they know about each other. They know nothing about each other. Well
Speaker 2:He, he knows she paints and she knows like his stop story, but that was it. Like that's it. That's not really enough.
Speaker 1:They haven't like had a conversation. Oh she's
Speaker 3:Purposely
Speaker 4:Been avoiding him. She wants not wanted nothing to do with him.
Speaker 1:And the Lena Love story is presented. Like she gets back and it's like, everyone's excited because Lena's really in love. What?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Her sister's like, oh, I can tell you're in love because she found her painting. She's like, oh, you've never felt like anyone about this? And I'm just like, what are these feelings?
Speaker 1:Well, and I'll say like, I think I was the only one of the three of us that did that went for the love at first sight bit in the one quiz we took after Pride and Prejudice. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. But it's not presented that way either. She doesn't like him at the beginning. Yeah. She's just like mad that he's around. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And trying to hook, like hook her up with her sister that got a boyfriend like<laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 4:That's even younger than she
Speaker 1:Is. Yes. Her 14 year old sister making out with waiters in the alley. Yeah. What is happening in this book with
Speaker 2:That was strange though because then she judges Effy for doing that. But then she was so willing to set Effy up to begin with. With Costa's.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. All while Effy has a boyfriend back home. Yeah. Poor Gavin. He's the girl
Speaker 3:<laugh>. See? Is he the one that she said smells like something or something like that? I can't remember what she said about her sister's boyfriend, but Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Rough, rough story for Gavin.<laugh>.<laugh>.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah. But yeah, I don't know if we were supposed to go get the sense that she, that she kind of did like him or was interested in him but like didn't want to be and so she shut herself off. Like there was like a sort of moment where she is interested but like she shuts it down really quickly. Becau but cuz she thinks that every guy is just gonna disappoint her.
Speaker 7:Look, we're gathered here today to honor a gift that has been sent to us. Why we have to pay for us. Just,
Speaker 3:I think we should talk about the rules of the pants and just the pants in general. Cause Oh no. Is it ok. Some of these
Speaker 1:Rules? Yeah. Yeah. Do it.
Speaker 7:We need rules. Every sister has rules. Thank you. A manifesto. Okay. Good point. I
Speaker 3:Love it. All right, so the back cover of my book says we, this sister hereby instate the following rules to govern the use of the traveling pants. One, you must never wash the pants.
Speaker 1:This is not okay.<laugh>. This is like, oh gosh. You're so gross. It's so gross.
Speaker 4:Ew,
Speaker 8:Carmen, that's so unnecessary. Why
Speaker 1:Not? And they talk so many times about the grossness of the pants too. Yeah. Like Lena is sweating up a storm in them. Her
Speaker 3:Grandfather's
Speaker 1:Blood gets out on them some, but in the mud, mud all on it cuz Carmen sat in something, there's like olive oil on, they're
Speaker 3:Filthy and they talk about these pants being so beautiful and flattering. But like, I can't imagine pants that are that dirty being beautiful or flattering because I know like, I guess like with like actual like denim, they say you don't have to wash it as frequently, but like that's, there's a difference between you being the only person wearing those pants. Right. And you sharing them with three other girls, passing them down the mail, getting blood, SMU and all that on them.
Speaker 1:It's gross. And like, this is, this is the era of the thong. Like this is nasty. I just, no, the whole time I was reading this, this was like sharing underwear essentially. Honestly, I, I can't with that. Why are they gross? Why did they come up with that rule? What does the washing matter? Right?
Speaker 3:Why And why is that the first rule?
Speaker 4:It'll wash it away. The magic.
Speaker 9:What are you gonna wash the magic outta the magic's?
Speaker 1:Not
Speaker 3:Okay. Gross. Two, you must never devil cuff the pants. It's tacky. There will never be a time when this is not tacky. They're
Speaker 4:Obviously not under the height of five, one or five kids.
Speaker 1:<laugh>.
Speaker 3:You must never say the word fat p h a t while wearing the pants. You must also never think I am fat while wearing the pants. You'll
Speaker 1:Just think everyone else. Fat<laugh>. Maybe they should have thought more about using the P h A T fat because that would've been the only positive thing anyone said about anyone in the book.
Speaker 4:<laugh>,
Speaker 3:You must not pick your nose while wearing the pants. You may, however scratch casually at your nostril while really kind of picking,
Speaker 1:I mean Okay. I I'm gonna say that they're okay with basically nose picking and not washing your pants. Like we just have real hygiene issues throughout this book. Yeah.
Speaker 3:<laugh>, you must write to your sisters throughout the summer no matter how much fun you're having without them. Yeah, they did that. That was cute. I guess. Yeah, I was just wondering like how these, how much was it costing to get these pants and these letters around the, I
Speaker 1:Mean they, I know like international shipping is no joke. Yeah. To get'em there fast enough that like you could have them in Greece a couple days later. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:<laugh>. But I was gonna say it's definitely implied that it is none of these, these families are struggling at home.
Speaker 1:Well I mean Tibi says this is more than two hours at long.
Speaker 3:Oh, tb Yes. Tby was struggling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, but then I'm like, she paid her own own shipping. Everyone else I
Speaker 4:Paid, I guess baby's the only one with the job.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But then I think she lives in like Friendship Heights from the descriptors. Maybe she was just like doing it to be defiant because Tibi seems kind of oppositional. So maybe she was like, I don't want your dirty money now that you've sold out to the man mom or
Speaker 4:Whatever.<laugh>. No, that sounds like
Speaker 3:Tibby nine. You must not wear the pants. The tucked in shirt and belt. Sea rule two. This
Speaker 1:Was absurd. Okay.
Speaker 3:<laugh><laugh>.
Speaker 1:So body suits were huge in the late nineties when she would've written this book. Yeah. That's definitionally tucked in if you're wearing jeans.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like what? I'm I'm thinking about like classic MTV red carpet. Like Yeah, I,
Speaker 1:Yeah<laugh>. This is back in the snap crotch body suit deck
Speaker 4:<laugh>.
Speaker 3:I had one of those on yesterday.<laugh>,
Speaker 1:It's come around again and
Speaker 3:I had it with high waisted pants and my sister had on the same outfit she had on a belt and we had on boots and what um, yeah,
Speaker 4:<laugh>
Speaker 3:<laugh>. This last one is so funny to me. Number 10.
Speaker 10:Okay. Hence equal love.
Speaker 11:Love your sisters and love yourself.
Speaker 3:Okay. So I guess, but you can't love the people around you and just make fun of them for being themselves and looking how they look like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's all about build yourself up by tearing other people down, which is real yy. And I also have to say, did anyone feel like just the girls in this book are portrayed in a way that's very cringey, but the guys, the the teen guys in this get a pretty gracious depiction. Like Eric is totally lit off the hook.
Speaker 4:Paul,
Speaker 1:Paul is like some weird wisdom giving Yoda teen boy<laugh>. He doesn't mind that she's like, been calling his girlfriend Skeletor and like hitting on him in front of which is uh, again gross. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like the part where gross shows up to his room and like boxers like
Speaker 4:<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Costos is apparently a saint and doesn't mind that he's been essentially accused of rape by everyone in his village that he cares about for no reason at all. Like all of the, the guys, even the the video game guy is also like Brian McBrien. Yeah. Brian McBrien
Speaker 4:<laugh> name.
Speaker 1:He's like unexpectedly wise and like Yeah. You know, we, we leave with him being the one that to be really cares about at the end. Yeah.
Speaker 4:I, well with Paul, I I know he was, I I, I'd like to think that he was just empathetic of Carmen because of what's happening with his dad. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, I mean it's pretty obvious Carmen wants to spend time with her dad. So that's what I think is at least with Paul. But I think there's also some weird romanticizing your stepbrother thing there that's just,
Speaker 3:I feel like this is very of the time. Like I feel like there was some, there was some Disney channel show that I remember kind of did something similar life with Darren Life with
Speaker 2:We Go
Speaker 3:I did not make it up. No, you did, but the actor and actress also dated in real life. I think they did. Oh, so that that, that, that's probably why there was that tension. But the fact that they made it, it like, it wasn't like just tension. Like they actually had scenes, like they're on camera and it was weird. Like Yeah, I think there was a part like their stepbrother and stepsister didn't they almost kiss or something? I looked like they almost kissed. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, but I also felt like the book was kind of almost teasing a Carmen and Paul relationship. Like, oh he's gonna get tired of skeletal and go for her. Right.
Speaker 3:She was like, he's like, oh yeah, we broke up. Like we're good information. Uh, yeah. I'm gonna go a little off if that's okay. Yeah. Speaking of bad decisions this author made in the book. She, this book started out with like racist vibes. Oh
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, right out the gate, right? Yeah. Paragraph two. Paragraph two. It's awful.
Speaker 3:Do I wanna read it?
Speaker 1:I mean I think we kind of have to at least explain it. Give context what it's,
Speaker 3:Our parents weren't like the neurotic puppy whose parents left it alone barking itself hoar from morning till night. They were more like the grownup dog whose family loved it but had to move to an apartment building or maybe to Korea. Is it Korea where people sometimes eat dogs? There's literally no re She's literally, this isn't the prologue. Yeah. There isn't no reason put
Speaker 1:This in the book. No excuse for that at all at that time period. Yeah. That was not okay. Like somehow she has managed to write a book that is more racist than the books that we looked at that were 50. Yeah. A hundred, 150 years old. Yeah. She went to Sidwell and Barnard. There's no excuse for that. Like
Speaker 3:I, you're like nobody caught this before, like sending it off. Yeah. It also makes me wonder what other things might have been in the book that they might have taken out. Oh. And also like the wedding was supposed to take place on a plantation. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I get that. I guess that was supposed to be like explicit like show kind of like how the Lydia was like this South Carolina type woman. But again, I just feel like there was, I don't know, it felt unnecessary to me. Like why is that in there?
Speaker 2:I mean that makes sense for Lydia to me personally, like southern doll. If it, if it was there I would've just caught on and just, I feel like it was trying to say something about Lydia without being explicit about
Speaker 1:It. Yeah. Because it's not positive about Lydia. It's in the book generally, but like that's not okay. I don't think the depiction of Carmen is. Okay. Yeah. You have a white woman who's writing supposedly from the viewpoint of a character who's half Puerto Rican. She tackles the issue of racism towards Carmen by showing the like seamstress shop and the like, oh, my dad forgot to mention I was Puerto Rican. Now everybody's looking at me funny because they weren't expecting me to not be white. But this is while she's simultaneously writing this character to tick every box on the right Latina stereotypes. She makes Carmen the curvy one. Yeah. She makes Carmen the loud one. She makes Carmen the one with, you know, the one with the badge temper. Like I, what are we doing here? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that, that racist comment at the beginning is something that's said from Carmen's point of view. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes it even worse because Carmen spends a lot of the time talking about basically the negative stereotypes or negative opinions that people have of her. And Yeah, I mean similarly I am very wary of whenever like a white woman tries to write or a white author in general tries to write a person of color. And I think people always say like, why that should be okay. Because if you have just a lot of white authors, you know, and they're only able to write about white characters and you're never gonna have diverse characters, which obviously is leaving authors of color out of the conversation. But yeah, it was just like, it was one of those things where every time I kept reading things like that I was like, this is when they didn't have sensitivity readers<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Right. No, and I'm, I also, again, this is just such, uh, writing from a place of being a rich white woman in the D M V and a product of that. I think because this, this book, a lot of it takes place in DC and the only characters of color that we see are Carmen and her mom. Right. Like, I don't think, oh, and then maybe Loretta the babysitter, cuz she's depicted with a like, oh, an accent. Ambiguous accent. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's it. We're in DC like no one at the store that Toby works with is a person of color apparently. Right. Nobody at the hospital that she runs into. None of the school mates they run into like, it's very odd. The, I think the only other character of color in it is one of the friends Bridget makes it soccer camp against
Speaker 2:Diane. Diane. Diane,
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:<affirmative>. But that's it, which is just, that's an amazingly like bubbled view of the area. But again, the star with the, well
Speaker 3:The way she
Speaker 1:Was wearing Georgetown, so like I,
Speaker 3:But the way she was writing these characters maybe as good. She just didn't mention
Speaker 2:<laugh> was
Speaker 1:Gonna, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe it was for the best
Speaker 4:We were in Mexico. I think mostly it's just the men in the bar that are like fawning over Bridget. Well,
Speaker 2:Oh, Eric is half Mexican.
Speaker 4:Eric is half Mexican. But yeah, any like person, male person of color is spawning over Bridget. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Why exactly did this camp path to take place in Mexico?
Speaker 1:Because it would've been a crime if it took
Speaker 2:Place
Speaker 12:Story
Speaker 1:Then, because Eric would be on the sex offender registry. Now, I, I also will say that when we were doing some research for this, it was very disturbing that the author really doubled down on that bad joke in the second paragraph. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> about the eating dogs. Like that is not, that wasn't an okay joke to make then. And it's certainly not an okay joke to make now. And rather than apologize for it or say like, yeah, that was really off color. I shouldn't have said that. She was very unapologetic about it. Like it, she really did double down on it. She said, I don't wish to offend anyone. Uh, she said that it was part of the shoot from the hip spirit of the narrator. Hmm. I don't like the thought of driving away my Asian American readers. So this was like a very like, sorry you were offended. Yeah. I hope you don't stop buying my book apology. Like I, I don't see any self-awareness that this was not okay.
Speaker 3:What's wild about that? Her, her wording it like that saying like, oh, it's just reino kind of like straight from the hip shoot from the hip type of thing that the narrator said. You wrote the narrator's words, stop trying to like
Speaker 12:Blame it on car. Right. Stop trying to make it like you, she's not real<laugh> you were words like.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I feel like she wrote that and just thought she was really clever.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's, I feel like, I feel like she just, even if she in her, even if in her head she wasn't really sorry about it, the fact that you doubled down on it Yeah. Just makes you seem so
Speaker 1:Much worse years after the
Speaker 3:Fact, years after the fact. Right. So this is like a time where like, okay, sometime has passed, I've heard people's concerns. Maybe I should know better. So like if someone approaches me about it, like I should kind of have an answer as to how I'm gonna respond to
Speaker 1:This. And I also feel like maybe where she says the part where it's like, is it Korea? Like that she thought that that was somehow softening it, but it actually makes
Speaker 3:Worse, it
Speaker 1:Worse because then it's like Carmen can't tell Asian countries apart. Yeah. Like, ugh.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That was a very interesting, not interesting in a good way, but it was, that was, that was quite a way to start the
Speaker 1:Book. Well, and because I think she, she writes such a ambiguous book in terms of what her take home is, for me at least, like, it's morally very unclear to me what the author wants us to take home from this book. And I think with some of the books that we've read where we've said, well this isn't great, but it's a product of its time. And you can see that for the time the author was trying to do this thing that was more progressive. So we can view it as a product of its time. And we'd assume like the author's moving towards the right direction, I guess, with these other things. But I don't think this is 20 years old. Like that's not a product of its time in a way where it's like, oh, well the author clearly learned from that because she didn't. And like the book itself doesn't seem to be making any, I don't know any plea or tolerance at all. Like it's, or any plea for inclusion. Everything about it is about judging people and critiquing people. And I don't know, it's comparing from this book to other people<laugh>, it, it's, it's just an incredibly judgmental book. So I think I don't, I couldn't get past that because I don't feel like the author was giving us like otherwise a, a good take home or a good story or good character development.
Speaker 3:And speaking of character development, like I know we're supposed to feel like these girls are like really, really great friends. But did y'all feel like did, I mean, I guess maybe because the book started and like, not so long after the book started, they just went off, went off on their separate ways. But nothing about this book made me necessarily feel anything about their friendships either. Like, I mean, yeah, they wrote each other letters and stuff like that, but
Speaker 2:They're definitely riding on the wave of like, we were born around the same time and our moms made us like hang out with each other and like, it just has stuck. But yeah, I mean, I feel like it tells you more about how great friends they are than it shows, shows you I agree. Yeah. I, I will say though, that it, it does, I mean I, I did have the criticism I think more so now than back then that they're often cosigning each other's like bad habits. Mm-hmm. I don't think that they're always really telling each other the truth or really holding each other accountable.
Speaker 3:I will say that I did like seeing Tibi and Bailey's friendship, which maybe started out as a<laugh>. I mean, it maybe started out as like a, oh, well this girl has leukemia, so I'm just gonna like let her come around. But like, they did kind of seem like they had a genuine friendship. And it might have been maybe one of the more interesting things in the book, but at the same time that might just be me grasping for straws to find something that was a little not, I, I don't know if even was even the inclusion of that possibly problematic. Like, I don't know, like
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean it, it was unfortunate like misery porn as a plot device. Yeah. Like it really was just a, well we need a way for TBI to like realize x, y, z, so I know I'll kill this girl<laugh>, like
Speaker 2:Guinea pig. That wasn't enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Which I mean, okay. A lot of books do that, but
Speaker 3:Fault North Stars<laugh>
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Yeah.<laugh>.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh. Although I thought it was sweet that Bailey eventually started to dress more like Tibi, which showed the kind of influence that Tippi had on her in such a short amount of time. But the bigger, more profound like difference was the difference that Bailey made on Tibi.
Speaker 3:This would've been a more interesting book if it was probably just about
Speaker 1:Them. I mean honestly, honestly, I thought Bailey was the most interesting character in the book. Yeah. Like she was, because she kept it real<laugh>. She seemed like there was stuff going on there that was non appalling.<laugh><laugh><laugh>.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For someone a lot younger, she had a better understanding of things that you would've hoped that the main characters would have. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like I would've read a book about Bailey and the video game Kid<laugh>. I liked them. Yeah.<laugh>. And there's this whole like secondary that, um,<laugh> that tip's working on<laugh>. Yeah. That's so mean. Yeah.<laugh>. Like, I'm gonna, it's not even like a mockumentary where she's like, how are you on camera? She's interviewing real people to make fun of them. Yeah. Which is just incredibly cool. Yeah. I mean I, she learned something during the process that that was mean and Yeah. These aren't horrible people and like, oh, they're real people, but she learns that because a 12 year old tells her that. Yeah. Which is pretty brutal.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I, I think that kind of rings true cuz like you were saying earlier right? That like, it does capture that like narcissism that teens have at that age where you feel like you're the center of the world. And I know we were talking about that more so in terms of body image, but it makes sense that Tibi has those views of everyone, right? Like they're such losers, like they have this kind of life and which she thinks is interesting, you know, like they're the opposite of that. And so that's why they suck as people<laugh> and Yeah, I mean it definitely took like an outsider's perspective to really tell her like, is it just, is it that these people suck or that you just have this perspective of them mm-hmm.<affirmative> it really is just about your perspective and Yeah. The fact that Bailey's like, well at least you're willing to change your mind about them. Like, it was a sweet line, but at the same time I was like, yeah, because someone had to tell her Right. Too. Someone had to tell her that people don't just inherently suck because they're the general manager of a wallman's. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, is that supposed to be like a Walmart? I, I don't know what that is. I it seemed like a cvs mm-hmm.<affirmative> or something. Mm-hmm. Um,
Speaker 2:I have we dumped enough into the family issues.
Speaker 1:I think I could go more with the family issues
Speaker 2:Because I'm really mad at Carmen's dad. Carmen's
Speaker 1:He's tell us why you mad at Carmen's dad?
Speaker 2:<laugh>. I'm just, I just feel like he's the adult in that relationship and for him to not warn her like once, like it, you know, on the, you didn't have to say everything, but like on the phone could have said something even when she landed and then he like picked her up even on the drive there. He could have said something, but he didn't, like, he stayed silent that entire time and then finally was like, this is my family. And then she obviously reacts really badly toward it. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> because she, she had no way of like really preparing for it. And then he was like, I'm sorry, my bad. I really wanted to tell you in person. I felt like this was an in per, I'm like, yeah, it's an in-person conversation. I could see where you're getting that. But like it's also a time sensitive and Yeah. If it's gonna be in person, at the very least you could have came
Speaker 1:Before. Exactly. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. No, it's just brutal. He's a coward. Yeah. He absolutely abandoned her and got new family.
Speaker 13:It's like he trained me and mom in for something that you thought was better and I wanna know why are you ashamed of
Speaker 14:Me?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then was like, surprise Pete, could you face when she was upset about that? Yeah. And it's like, guy, what did you think would happen?
Speaker 4:It, what makes it tragic too is Carmen pushes her mom away. Yeah. As the time gets closer when she's going to spend time with her dad. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And the only she even said it to herself is just like, I've pushed my mom away, but I need to talk to her because my dad, the person she idolizes has gotten a new family. And this is someone who she's be trying to become more like, because of how much she wants his approval from the math. She loves math, he loves math. Uh, the, the tennis, I mean, she could have gone for anything else, but it's just, it's very horrible. But to hide also that, I mean that she's half Puerto Rican because they had no clue either. Well,
Speaker 1:Okay, how are you engaged to someone and you've never shown her a picture of your child. Like, it's not like she didn't know Carmen existed. Yeah. So he doesn't have a picture of her. He's trash. I Yeah, he's awful. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like what? Like<laugh>. And it is just like, you know, she, you know, Carmen makes the point of like, Paul can go see his father every month.
Speaker 14:Then why does Paul visit his alcoholic dad every month? Did you only visit twice a
Speaker 1:Yeah,
Speaker 3:He kept bothered. She says, she said like, you know, this is crazy. Like, I always see his suitcases, but this is the first time he's seen mine. Like mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, granted, it's not necessarily like, you can't necessarily compare the situations, but like at the same time, like, you know, as a teenager, it makes sense that that's something that she would be thinking and feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I got to the, I think that was probably, I mean aside from like Bailey and like tip's kind of dissent when, um, Bailey's in the hospital, I think that was like ano like one of those poignant scenes in the book. Because obviously up until then you're just like, I think everyone is aware of who Carmen should be mad at. But she's obviously trying to like delay that, right? Yeah. She is like, no, I'm actually mad at Lydia and her perfect blonde kids. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. I'm actually mad at my mom. I'm ac you know, she's mad at everyone and doesn't wanna say that she's mad at her dad.
Speaker 15:No, dad, you don't know<laugh>. That's just it. You've never known because I've never been able to tell You
Speaker 14:Told me what then
Speaker 15:I'm angry with you dad.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that was a really like touching scene once she finally gets him on the phone and she's like, I'm mad at you. And not really caring about what he's gonna say back because this is something that she's kind of held in for a really long time. And then the mom mentioned something else later, like, yeah, maybe it's like a little bit easier for you to be upset with other people in your life because you know that they're gonna love you no matter what. But you've never felt that about your dad. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> because he hasn't taken the time to really like, strengthen that relationship.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I hate him.<laugh>.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Dad communication that could have saved Carmen and Lena<laugh> would've just been amazing. I think with Bridget at least, like, there was like communication and just ignoring it. But with Lena, I think Carmen, um, with her dad at the end, they do like, kind of make a promise to just come communicate better. But I think that was like the main growth. Yeah. Between someone. No, she
Speaker 2:Lets
Speaker 1:'em off the hook at the end. She goes to the wedding and it's like the
Speaker 3:Ugly
Speaker 14:Pants, all the stinky pants.<laugh>
Speaker 2:Did you say in the stinky pants? The
Speaker 3:Stinky jeans, stinky
Speaker 14:Pants.
Speaker 4:<laugh>. I think they actually casted the dad very well in the movie because the actor is just very,
Speaker 1:It's like Bradley Whitford, right?
Speaker 14:Yeah.<laugh>.
Speaker 3:I think that again, like there's so many steps before you get engaged. Like they have a wedding date planned at the end of the summer. Yeah. He's moved into her whole house. Yeah. Sold his whole car, met his whole child, her whole
Speaker 1:Children, and been present and claiming them as their lives. He's been going to Paul's games and
Speaker 3:Stuff, right? Like yeah, that's my stepson. Like she is like, no, I'm your actual daughter right here. That's not your job.
Speaker 4:I'm not even stepson. My son.
Speaker 3:My son. Yeah. Like,
Speaker 14:And I know you, you just seem so heavy about being Paul and Kristen's dad, but you never even had the time to be mine. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:And I mean, granted, you know, it's, it is good that he's embraced them into his family. That's fine. But like, also there's a part of like, you're making them your family, but like, you're not incorporating like your actual family, your daughter into all of that. And it's just very strange because it's like, how long were y'all dating before y'all got engaged before like
Speaker 1:<laugh>? No. Yeah. It's a mess. It's gross. Like he made choices and repeatedly he chose not her.
Speaker 3:Does anybody else's family suck
Speaker 1:Of the
Speaker 14:No. No. That person, the book<laugh>.
Speaker 4:Well, I don't like Toby's mom. Toby's mom is pretty bad. At least like when, at least the way Tibi talks about cuz she is filtered through Tibi.
Speaker 2:That's Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because I mean she's obviously like with two young ones and Tibby kind of has to help. But what Bailey says to TBI is pretty rough. It's just like you're the practice child. Yeah. Like you're, we're basically like not you were here as an accident. Almost like they practiced with you and then when they actually wanted kids, they went<laugh>, they went ahead and get hot, handsome. Um,
Speaker 3:And now she gotta be the babysitter
Speaker 4:For them kids. Yeah. And now she needs to be the babysitter. But also, I mean like with her mom seeing all of the fancy homes for like some of the friends wanting her own as well. Dad has to work longer hours. He had to go back. He had to like make more money because he couldn't be just jumping around. And what, 19, I think Heather was your notes
Speaker 1:<laugh>? Yes. He was apparently in law school at 19. Which, what?
Speaker 3:And so like how old were, okay, so they were 19. So like, how old were the other moms and why were they friends? And maybe that's why they weren't friends for
Speaker 1:Law. They're, they
Speaker 3:Were just like the only in common was being pregnant. Like
Speaker 2:<laugh> math is a bad thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think, I think the rest of them have, I mean, well Bridget, you
Speaker 1:Don't really Bridget's mom's dad. We don't really find much out about her.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Did Bridget's dad ever send her the thot clothes? She wanted her him a second. Not close. Sorry, that was, I have to take that out.
Speaker 1:<laugh>. I mean, why would it matter? Cuz she again walks in in her underwear. So it's not like she needed more clothes.
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Oh, each xicoiepisode we are heading into the library and talking to you. Well not you, but people like you right here in the stacks today. We want to know, do you have an item of clothing that changes how you feel about yourself?
Speaker 16:I have a piece of clothing that is special to me. It's a shirt, it's a pink shirt. And the reason why that shirt is so important to me, because that shirt was the brightness of the days that I went through in reference to going through, uh, my chemo treatment. And every time I put that shirt on when I had to go and I wore that shirt each time, which is once a week. Um, for my, um, treatment, chemo treatment, it gave me a bright smile because it was so bright and it was like no matter how dark it in, but I'm gonna be bright. Yeah. And shine. So I, I actually looked at their shirt on Sunday and see this is my bright shoe.
Speaker 17:Um, a crop top and a crop top and leggings.
Speaker 1:Okay, what do they look like?
Speaker 17:Um, it has um, a like it says omg it's my birthday November 18 and then my leggings are just black light<laugh>. It's gonna be really silly but I show my tummy. Uh, yeah. Um, it's right there over there. Um, it's this orange blanket hoodie with tons of black cats on it. It's for like Halloween and stuff. Um, it's my favorite outfit to wear with um, my sweatpants, my green sweatpants. Um, because it makes me really cozy. And it's what me and my friend would wear like every Friday and we would match together
Speaker 18:Is a pen that depicts the seal on the state of Maryland. I take the responsibility of representing the people of Prince George County and the state of Maryland very seriously. And this is a wonderful reminder to me to always stay true to that. This pen I received from a colleague of mine in 2019 when I first came to the Senate. He is another senator who shared it with me
Speaker 17:To the pants
Speaker 4:And the sisterhood
Speaker 17:And this summer.
Speaker 1:So today we are taking a quiz brought to you by Buzzfeed and written by Jamie Giac and it is titled Everyone has a Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, character Percentage. Here's yours. So we're going to find out our uh, character percentages of the sisterhood. I guess first question is, pick a place to spend your summer. The options are Greece, South Carolina, Mexico, California, at home, making money wherever the wind takes me.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna say Mexico because um, this picture that they have of Mexico is beautiful. So<laugh> and I've been to Mexico a few times and it's always been a good time vibes.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna go with Greece. I'm going with Greece too, just cuz I've spent more time in Mexico.
Speaker 4:Uh, same here. I'm from Mexico and I go to Mexico a lot. So I'd love to go to Greece.
Speaker 3:You're like been there, done that.<laugh>.
Speaker 4:I mean I still love it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, now we are picking a pair of pants, which I will attempt to describe. The first pair is like some pleather leggings or stiletto pants I guess. Um, then we have some athletic tights, some cheetah pants, some ripped jeans, some sweatpants that appear to maybe have a belt. So like weird
Speaker 4:<laugh>. Figure that out.
Speaker 1:Weird joggers
Speaker 4:With a belt
Speaker 1:Or some pants which are on fire. Liar,
Speaker 3:Liar.
Speaker 4:<laugh>.<laugh>.
Speaker 3:This is kind of hard. I
Speaker 4:Wish they just had regular jeans. I know. I
Speaker 3:Was thinking the same thing cuz these jeans kind of ugly but
Speaker 4:<laugh>.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna go with the jeans.
Speaker 1:I definitely wear workout clothes. The most of pants, but I also don't like pants unless I'm working out. So I'm kind of torn between the leggings or the fire pants. I'll take the fire pants.
Speaker 4:<laugh>. What?
Speaker 1:I don't like pants particularly. Okay. Unless they're like for a purpose. I begrudgingly chose the
Speaker 4:Jeans
Speaker 3:Begrudgingly. Love that.
Speaker 4:I'm just gonna go with the sweats because I don't like those jeans.
Speaker 1:Those jockers
Speaker 4:Though.<laugh>.
Speaker 1:All right. Pick a pair of celebrity BFFs. We've got Tina Fey and Amy Puller. Oprah and Gail
Speaker 4:<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Ma Williams and Sophie Turner. Millie, Bobby Brown and Noah Snap. Shannon Woodward and Katie Perry. Okay.<laugh> Tina And then Lupita and Yogo and Michael B. Jordan.
Speaker 3:This's. Such a random lineup. These,
Speaker 1:These are really weird
Speaker 3:Choices, but I'm gonna go with Lupita and Yogo and Michael B. Jordan.
Speaker 4:<laugh>.
Speaker 3:I have no reason as to why
Speaker 4:<laugh>. I'm gonna go Game of Thrones. I
Speaker 1:Guess I'll go Tina Fay and Amy Poller.
Speaker 2:I'll go. Stranger Things go with Millie and Noah.
Speaker 1:All right, we're picking an activity. Filmmaking, soccer, art, baking, swimming or theater.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna go with baking cause I'm not particularly great at it, but I could follow instructions and it usually comes out pretty okay. I have a sweet tooth.
Speaker 1:I'm go for swimming. I'll go
Speaker 2:For baking. I'm gonna
Speaker 4:Go for art.
Speaker 1:Pick a quote from the series. Single-minded till the point of recklessness. Time is what keeps things from happening all at once. Maybe sometimes it's easier to be mad at the people you trust because you know they'll always love you no matter what. I always interpret coincidences as little clues to our destiny. Don't talk to me. I'm tired and grumpy and I'll probably make fun of you. And maybe there is more truth in how you feel than in what actually happens.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna go with maybe sometimes it's easier to be mad at the people you trust because you know they'll always love you no matter what though. Seeing all these quotes together just kind of make me realize how ridiculous this book kind
Speaker 1:A real
Speaker 2:Try. Very
Speaker 1:Cheesy. These aren't great.
Speaker 2:I think I'm gonna go with maybe there's more truth than how you feel than in what actually happens.
Speaker 4:<laugh>, I'm gonna go with Don't talk to me. I'm tired and grumpy. I'll probably make fun of you.<laugh>.
Speaker 1:I'll go with Single-Minded to the Point of Reckless<laugh>.
Speaker 3:Okay, Bridget,
Speaker 1:Pick a friendship movie. Thelma and Louise now and then. I love you man. Girls Trip. The Goonies or Bridesmaids.
Speaker 3:So about Bridesmaids. Cause I haven't seen Girls Trip. I remember that being a hot mess when I worked at the movie theater. Like everybody loved like those. This movie was crazy. Like people were so excited for that movie. Heard it was good but I ain't seen it.
Speaker 1:Hog, ghost Feldman Louise. Even though I think it's weird to have a movie about like murdering someone with your best friend on
Speaker 4:Here.<laugh>.<laugh>.
Speaker 3:Is that what that's about? Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I think I'm gonna do the same. I'm gonna do Thelman and Louise.
Speaker 2:I'll go with the Goonies.
Speaker 1:What annoys you the most? My family. Boredom. Having to make any decision. Slow walkers. Pretty much everyone in everything Or other?
Speaker 3:Other. They'll give you other option of all the questions they've asked
Speaker 4:Us.
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Yeah. That's weird.
Speaker 4:Hmm.
Speaker 3:If I had to pick from, not other though. I'll say slow walkers cuz I hate when I'm walking into the mall trying to get to my destination and I gotta walk around people.
Speaker 4:For me it's boredom. I hate being bored.
Speaker 1:Oh I I love boredom.<laugh>. I'll go with slow walkers too.
Speaker 4:<laugh>.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I almost wanna put other, but I guess if I had to choose it would be slow walkers.
Speaker 1:Oh, now we're having a movie issue. So pick a boyfriend. Costas. Brian. Eric Leo.
Speaker 3:Who is Leo?
Speaker 2:He's in the second movie. Movie
Speaker 4:With Lena. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well I see that he's played by Jesse Williams and I love Jesse Williams. I'm gonna go with Leo. Hey
Speaker 4:<laugh>.
Speaker 2:That's an unfortunate picture to choose of Brian. I know. Cause he has a glow up in the second movie. Yeah,
Speaker 4:But how do you not judge also cost this from the second movie<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm going with just from the book and I'm gonna go with Brian. Same. What makes you happiest? My friends, my family, my work, my hobby. Something else. Nothing.<laugh>.
Speaker 4:<laugh>. Others.
Speaker 1:A lot about others.
Speaker 4:<laugh>
Speaker 1:As a choice.
Speaker 3:I was just gonna tell you the turned under the characters. Um um, something else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm kind of leaning that way too.
Speaker 4:I'm gonna be wholesome my family. Oh,
Speaker 2:I'll say my hobby.
Speaker 4:<laugh>.
Speaker 2:I love my family though. Love
Speaker 1:My family. I love family too. Pick a husband. These are real husbands of the people. Yeah. Or real significant others of the people involved since now some of them are divorced. Yeah.<laugh>. Um, this hasn't aged well. David Cross. Vincent Carthy. Ryan Reynolds. Ryan Pierce. Williams. I guess I'll go with Ryan Reynolds. Yeah. Cause that's the only marriage that lasted where
Speaker 3:Where is the something else? Because why I gotta pick a husband. If y'all just told me to pick a boyfriend.<laugh>, I'm gonna go with Ryan Reynolds. He kind of cute.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I got exactly 25. 25. 25. 25.
Speaker 2:Really? I got a hundred percent of a character.
Speaker 4:<laugh>. Oh God. What did you get?
Speaker 2:I got a hundred percent tippy. Wow. Really?
Speaker 3:<laugh>. I got a hundred percent Bridget.
Speaker 4:I got a hundred percent. Lena<laugh>.<laugh>. Okay,
Speaker 2:Well read your, read your results. So a hundred percent Tibi. You are driven by creativity and you're always looking for new inspiration. You're mature for your age, but still have a lot to learn about life. Sometimes you feel like the black sheep of your family<laugh>, but luckily you have amazing friends that always make you feel loved. You're hesitant to form new relationships, but once someone is solidified in your life, they are in your heart forever.
Speaker 3:<laugh> 100% Bridget, you are outgoing wrong. Competitive wrong. And you're never afraid to speak. Your mind wrong. Sometimes you act impulsively and can regret your decisions, but you're always willing to get back on the horse and try again. Wrong<laugh>, you love the outdoors wrong and making new friends wrong, but no one will ever compare to your best friends who keep you grounded. Yeah. This was just all around wrong.
Speaker 1:<laugh>.<laugh>.
Speaker 2:Now I feel like I should have fact checked myself. I'm not the me, but my family description
Speaker 3:Itself just doesn't feel me. And then like knowing how Bridget acted in the book, it's just like, well dang, a lot of people I had to get had to get her after we just spent an hour and a half going in<laugh>
Speaker 4:<laugh>. A hundred percent. Lena, you are artistic and painfully shy. You're usually uncomfortable in new situations and have a tough time making decisions. Luckily you have an amazing group of pals who are happy to pull you out of your shell. You're interested in learning about your family history and culture. But don't nec necessarily plan to follow in anyone else's footsteps. You're hesitant to fall in love, but once you do, it's for life.<laugh>, maybe my teenage soul.
Speaker 1:<laugh><laugh>.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately<laugh> unfortunately,
Speaker 1:Oh, I got a quarter of everybody. You are the perfect blend of all four sisters. Your open, passionate, and occasionally get swept up in the moment. Your friends have always been your top priority no matter how far away they might be. Sometimes you stumble when things don't go your way, but you always find the will to try again. Eh, that was a little bit of a fail of a quiz. I know.
Speaker 4:Each episode we ask whether our book passes the Bechtel test. The Bechtel test asks whether a work features two female characters who talk to each other about something that doesn't involve men or boys. So does it pass?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes. But it's, it's more of a barely than it should be. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Given how many female characters they have.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Almost all of the talk is in relation to the men in their lives or the boys in their lives. I
Speaker 3:Feel like if anything, it's like the first thing that comes to mind is like conversations with maybe like Bailey and
Speaker 1:Bailey. Bailey. Yeah. Agree. Yeah. I don't, we didn't really talk about this. I do not think this is a very feminist book. I'm just going
Speaker 2:<laugh>
Speaker 1:Claim my ground here and say I don't feel this is a feminist work.
Speaker 3:I'm like, would you recommend this book to someone? No.
Speaker 1:<laugh>, not really. Really? No. It hasn't aged well
Speaker 3:At all. Are they good role models? Not particularly<laugh>.
Speaker 2:Well, that's it for this episode. These books made me join us next time when we'll discuss a book about young entrepreneurs. If you think you know which book we're tackling next, drop us a tweet. We're at PTC mls on Twitter and hashtag these books. Meet Me.